May 9th, 2008 Steven Danderson
Earlier this month I wrote a post detailing seven admirable things about Islam. Though the actual idea was my colleague Mike Parker’s idea, I thought it necessary for several reasons:
1. True Latter-day Saints know that there is good in every religion.
2. I wanted to show that LDS opinion on Islam was knowledgable and even-handed. Most Latter-day Saint I know are not willing to accept the worst of Islam just because some loudmouth says so.
I would suggest reading Brother Spencer Palmer’s book, Mormons and Muslims, for a more thorough scholarly treatment.
3. Many people that I know, both LDS and non-LDS, seem to conflate Islam with its virulent cousin, what David Horowitz calls “Islamo-Fascism.” I felt that I had to properly define Islam before I could define Islamo-Fascism in contra-distinction. The two are different.
4. Perhaps most important, I am aware of attempts by people like Jon Krakauer and Timothy Egan to define the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by its worst elements–especially those who were cut off from the mainline Church long ago. The Church shouldn’t be defined by apostates who were excommunicated long ago; Christianity as a whole shouldn’t be defined by the behaviour of medieval knights a millennium ago; and certainly, Islam shouldn’t be defined by those who violently pervert it.
There are several differences between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) and its apostate cast off (the FLDS):
1. Though both accept the principle of polygamy, the Mormons–according to its law-abiding principles (See D&C 98:5-6 and AF 1:12)–discontinued the practice after the US Supreme Court declared its outlawing constitutional. The FLDS–to this day–lives in defiance of the relevant laws.
2. Even during their polygamy period, the Mormons limited the practise to those who could otherwise legally be married. The age of consent was lower during the 19th century, but as it rose, the so did the age of plural wives. Whether it is the first wife or the 25th, marrying underage women means excommunication. On the other hand, it is reported that the FLDS still forces 14-year-ols women into marrying.
3. Related to #2, among the Mormons, polygamy was entirely voluntary. Not only must the intended husband and wife consent, so must every other wife. The FLDS, to the contrary, leaves no choice regarding who marries whom.
4. The Mormons did NOT require the practise. There is a story about Elder Reed Smoot, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who was facing expulsion by the US Senate because of the Church’s polygamy. Like the woman taken in adultery [John 8:3-11], Senator Smoot was dragged to the GOP Senate leader. Spotting a few adulterers in the midst, the leader bellowed, “I would rather have seated beside me in this chamber a polygamist who doesn’t polyg than a monogamist who doesn’t monog.” The FLDS tend to shun men who refuse to partake.
I will leave distinguishing extremists from normative Christians to the Apologetics Index, which declares, “The Westboro Baptist Church, of Topeka, Kansas, is a hate group masquerading as a Christian church.” Over the past two and a half centuries, the USA has been working on the art of marginalising extremist Christians. While we are still imperfect, the fact remains that the denizens of Topeka, Kansas need not worry about getting slaughtered by Westboro Baptists.
For the sake of those of us who must fight Islamo-fascism, and normative Muslims who wish to obey Allah’s will, rather than some mullah’s, I now distinguish the former from the latter:
1. Devout normative Muslims care about morality; Muhammed Atta and his ilk were seen in strip clubs on 10 September 2001.
2. Islamo-fascist state Iran executed a 16-year-old rape victim for “crimes against chastity.” Devout normative Muslims believe that it is the rapist who should be executed (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366).
3. As my colleague, Dr. Greg Smith, pointed out, to a mainline Muslim, Jihad means to wage war against one’s sinful desires. To the Islamo-fascist, it means, ”Kill the Infidel!” or, more accurately, “Kill anybody not like me!”
4. To the Islamofascist, possessing the Bible is worthy of death; normative Muslims want to possess the Bible to better understand their Christian neighbours. Moreover, mainline Muslims know that the Qur’an commands that Muslims study the Bible [Al-Baqarah, 2:121].
5. To the Islamofascist, Christians and Jews are infidels to be killed. To normative Muslims, they are “People of the Book,” and thus, allies in the fight against godlessness [See, for example, Quran, Al-Imran, 3:79-80].
6. As I said in my earlier post, Islam preserved and extended knowledge. Islamofascists prefer that we all live in the stone age.
7. Normal Muslims see honour in being good hosts. Killing Nick Berg, as the Islamo-fascists did–and prefer to do, is NOT hospitality!
Unfortunately, all this gets lost when, as commenter Rudy said in responding to my previous post, “moderate groups like CAIR” defend not only Muslims in general, but even extremists. It is one thing to say that one abhors killing; one must also move to ostracise the extremists, or risk being tied to those extremists.
I think that Islam could take a lesson from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It excommunicated Samson Avard and his Danites before they could do much damage. Unfortunately, that may have been too late to avoid Missouri’s extermination order.
Furthermore, the Church excommunicated not only the main perpetrator of the Mountain Meadows Massacre (John Lee), it excommunicated local authorities who were present at the atrocity–and did nothing to stop it. While Brigham Young was removed as Utah’s Governor, the excommunications probably prevented the US Army from continuing its quest to detroy the Church.
Why is there no overarching Muslim authority that condemns Islamofascist Jihad? One possible answer is that normative Islam is no more monolithic than Christianity. Not only is there a difference between Sunni and Shia Islam, each major group has many subsets. Osama bin Laden is the leader of an extremist group in the ultra-conservative Wahabbi sect of Sunni Islam, the Qutbists.
Perhaps the normative Muslims are afraid of the extremists…. That is entirely possible, seeing that many of us won’t help protect the good ones from the bad….
The good Muslims need our prayers; the bad ones need to receive exploding daisy-cutters.
UPDATE: There is a correction in the third from last paragraph. Hat tip to Ray Agostini.
Posted in Anti-Mormon critics, General, LDS History, News stories, Politics, Polygamy, Women | 4 Comments »
May 5th, 2008 Allen Wyatt
On the “Setting the Record Straight” thread there was a comment made by MarkW that indicated that Tracy Bachman, wife of Tal Bachman, had independently corroborated Tal Bachman’s story of what was said by their ex-stake president.
MarkW said: Actually, his wife did speak publicly about this at the exmo conference. So there is corroboration from her. I don’t remember how specific or on-point it was, so we’d have to go back and review that. And while her witness would not be direct corroboration of Tal’s meeting with the SP it’d be corroboration that the SP did say the type of things in question to someone else.
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Posted in Anti-Mormon critics, General | 21 Comments »
April 25th, 2008 Steven Danderson
Some time ago, I posted an entry complaining of Governor “Finn’s” crack about Mormon doctrine. Anti-Mormons respond to our taking offense by claiming that we don’t like it when Christians “speak the truth in in love” about us. Up to now, my reply is that anti-Mormons state our beliefs in such a way as to make the Church seem bizarre, even sinister. While that is still true, I think I’ve found another reason.
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Posted in Anti-Mormon critics, Doctrine, General, News stories, Politics | 11 Comments »
April 22nd, 2008 Steven Danderson
Imagine this dispatch from the New Yuck Times:
“Tumbleweed, NV, April 21st: Government officials raided an offshoot Baptist compound yesterday following an alleged 911 call from a 16-year-old girl claiming that her husband had beat her with a one-inch-thick stick. In all, 500 women and children were evacuated.
“Said Mustangranch County Sheriff Darius Dust, ‘We had to move. The founder was already convicted of statutory rape and incest. We just couldn’t afford to have any more abused kids.’
“Dust was referring to the founder/pastor of the First Redneck Baptist Church, Reverend Jerry Lee Lulu, convicted last month of marrying his 13-year-old first cousin. Lulu founded the Church because he was concerned that the Redneck traditions of the Old South in Appalachia was becoming lost in the rapidly-modernizing world. Lulu’s group fled their original settlement in Lorettalynn, WV, after local authorities announced a probe of illegal activities. In addition to allegations of statutory rape and spousal and child abuse, Coaldust County, WV District Attorney John B. Goode claimed that there were credible charges of “moonshining,” or making illegal alcohol. However, the group fled the jurisdiction before charges could be filed, and Goode declined to press the matter further. ‘I just figured that it was now Nevada’s problem,’ Goode explained.
“At the request of state authorities, the Tumbleweed Ward of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints assisted in the evacuation by providing a caravan of busses and cars, and housing the evacuees in their Mustangranch Nevada Stake Center. Said Bishop Harry Dingy, of the Tumbleweed Ward, ‘What a wonderful opportunity to minister and show hospitality to our non-LDS neighbors!’”
If the details of the above story disturb you, maybe you can see why this article disturbs me.
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Posted in Anti-Mormon critics, General, LDS History, News stories, Politics, Polygamy, Women | 11 Comments »
March 21st, 2008 Steven Danderson
PREFACE: I have a confession to make: In an earlier blog, I intentionally used harsher language than normal in describing wrongful acts by erstwhile LDS missionaries. The reasons are threefold:
1. I wanted to emphasize the serious damage done to LDS-Catholic relations, LDS missionary efforts in that area and as a whole, and to the reputation of the Church.
2. I wanted to spur discussion (as I do in my courses–usually successfully). I appear to have succeeded–perhaps in ways that I did not intend. I wanted to take the most rigorous position consistent with Gospel principles, that is the “Hammer them, then take them by the hand and help them back” approach. Obviously, I didn’t entirely succeed here–to miscalculations on my part. I repeat my apologies.
3. I wanted a lead-in for this Gospel-related entry. NoS was quite right in his comment that the essence of the Gospel was repentance and forgiveness. However, as he and others were a little slow on the uptake on my first reason for the harsh language (no doubt because of my miscalculations mentioned in the second reason–I’m sorry for this, NoS!), I didn’t want to give away the game before I had fully developed this entry (I’m sorry for this, too, NoS!).
Now, for the blog entry itself:
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Posted in Anti-Mormon critics, Doctrine, General, News stories | 12 Comments »
March 16th, 2008 Steven Danderson
FINAL UPDATE!!–Great news! The Catholics at the Sangre de Christo Catholic Church have asked law enforcement to drop charges against the erstwhile LDS missionaries. This, I think, concludes this blog. I will soon post a new blog entry detailing where I wanted to go with this in the first place. Many thanks to all those who posted comments–even the pans! 
I must confess that I write this post with outrage, disgust, and profound sadness. I am reminded of this cliche’ from Pogo: “We have met the enemy and he is us!” Earlier, I had posted about how an LDS Ward and Bishop were victimised by a non-LDS Christian preacher. The acts of that non-LDS preacher made me quite sympathetic to those who worship at a Roman Catholic shrine, the Sangre de Cristo Catholic Church, in San Luis, Colorado. Frankly, I am just as upset and horrified by news that LDS missionaries defiled it.
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Posted in Anti-Mormon critics, General, News stories | 27 Comments »
March 6th, 2008 Steven Danderson
In Mosiah 7-19 we are told that Ammon and other Nephites from Zarahemla stumbled upon their brethren in Lehi-Nephi. We are told that the Lehi-Nephite decline started when King Noah raised income taxes from 10% to 20%, and culminated in their subjection to the Lamanites, who taxed them at a rate of 50%. Modern readers may wonder at this; why would the Nephites feel enslaved when many “free” nations nowadays have had much higher tax rates? (The USA had rates as high as 91%, and when Ronald Reagan won the US presidency in 1980, the top tax rate was 70%.) The “supply side” school of economic thought may provide an answer.
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Posted in Book of Mormon, General, Politics | 18 Comments »
February 16th, 2008 Steven Danderson
It appears that “Finn” may become the GOP nominee for vice president of the USA.
Such a ticket, though, would lose to the Democratic nominees–big. To some Evangelicals, those “bigoted Mormons” would be the scapegoats, since they don’t see “Finn’s” anti-Mormon cracks as the reason for the lack of LDS enthusiasm. Moreover, I imagine that these and other Evangelicals would see this loss as yet another instance of being persecuted.
Unlike militant Evangelicals who claim that Latter-day Saints lie about being persecuted, I categorically affirm that Evangelicals are also victims of persecution. As Glenn Beck might put it, “Here’s how I got there:” Read the rest of this entry »
Posted in Anti-Mormon critics, General, News stories, Politics, Temples | 2 Comments »
February 13th, 2008 Mike Ash
Heretic that I am, I regularly read the Skeptic and the Skeptical Inquirer (2 magazines that regularly attempt to debunk anything that seems to be unscientific). Although I don’t agree with everything in their magazines (much of it is atheistic), I do like a lot of what they print.
The other day I picked up the latest copy of the Skeptical Inquirer and found that the first article I read tied neatly into LDS apologetic efforts. The article is entitled “Difficulty in Debunking Myths Rooted in the Way the Mind Works,” by Shankar Vedantam. Here are some quotes, paraphrases, and summaries of the article.
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Posted in Anti-Mormon critics, General | 4 Comments »
