Comments on: Jehovah and the World of the Old Testament http://www.fairblog.org/2009/11/16/jehovah-in-old-testament-world/ Defending Mormonism Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:03:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ben http://www.fairblog.org/2009/11/16/jehovah-in-old-testament-world/comment-page-1/#comment-29937 Ben Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:26:10 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/?p=730#comment-29937 Certainly true Dan, but for the majority of the Hebrew Bible, El/elohim/eloah and the tetragrammaton are used interchangeably. The problem arises when LDS assume that the OT is the source of this idea, or reflects it. Certainly true Dan, but for the majority of the Hebrew Bible, El/elohim/eloah and the tetragrammaton are used interchangeably. The problem arises when LDS assume that the OT is the source of this idea, or reflects it.

]]> By: Daniel O. McClellan http://www.fairblog.org/2009/11/16/jehovah-in-old-testament-world/comment-page-1/#comment-29931 Daniel O. McClellan Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:29:36 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/?p=730#comment-29931 Thanks for this insightful review. I was in charge of identifying and gathering images for the book and produced a number of the charts and a couple illustrations. I'm glad to hear you thought that the book was visually meaningful. That was definitely what we were striving for. I would contribute one comment to your review. Regarding Elohim as the father of Jehovah, Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is recognized by many scholars as an early manifestation of El's original distinction from YHWH. In the text YHWH receives a portion of the nations (Israel) as one of the "Sons of Elohim," according to the Dead Sea Scroll attestation of the verse and the reconstructed Septuagint Vorlage. Psalm 82 continues on this theme, although YHWH is called "Elohim" (in the generic sense of "God") and El is called "Elyon." I'm not under the impression that this manifests a proto-Mormon theology, and the terms are all used in a variety of ways throughout the Hebrew Bible, but the idea is there. Anyone interested in reading more on this can consult the following publications: Otto Eissfeldt, “El and Yahweh,” Journal of Semitic Studies 1.1 (1956): 29–30; Simon B. Parker, “The Beginning of the Reign of God – Psalm 82 as Myth and Liturgy,” Revue Biblique 102.4 (1995): 532–59; Mark S. Smith, The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel’s Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2001), 49. Thanks for this insightful review. I was in charge of identifying and gathering images for the book and produced a number of the charts and a couple illustrations. I’m glad to hear you thought that the book was visually meaningful. That was definitely what we were striving for.

I would contribute one comment to your review. Regarding Elohim as the father of Jehovah, Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is recognized by many scholars as an early manifestation of El’s original distinction from YHWH. In the text YHWH receives a portion of the nations (Israel) as one of the “Sons of Elohim,” according to the Dead Sea Scroll attestation of the verse and the reconstructed Septuagint Vorlage. Psalm 82 continues on this theme, although YHWH is called “Elohim” (in the generic sense of “God”) and El is called “Elyon.” I’m not under the impression that this manifests a proto-Mormon theology, and the terms are all used in a variety of ways throughout the Hebrew Bible, but the idea is there. Anyone interested in reading more on this can consult the following publications:

Otto Eissfeldt, “El and Yahweh,” Journal of Semitic Studies 1.1 (1956): 29–30; Simon B. Parker, “The Beginning of the Reign of God – Psalm 82 as Myth and Liturgy,” Revue Biblique 102.4 (1995): 532–59; Mark S. Smith, The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel’s Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2001), 49.

]]> By: onika http://www.fairblog.org/2009/11/16/jehovah-in-old-testament-world/comment-page-1/#comment-29887 onika Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:50:34 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/?p=730#comment-29887 I forgot to add the Mandaeans, a gnostic sect from the Mesopotamia area, call the Demiurge Ptahil. Clearly Ptah and Osiris are the same god as the Demiurge. The Demiurge proclaims he is the only god. They believe Abraham and Moses were false prophets (probably because they worship Jehovah instead of Elohim). It appears to me Jehovah is the same god as Ptah, Osiris, and the Demiurge. The freemasons believe the true name of god is Jehovah Baal Osiris. I forgot to add the Mandaeans, a gnostic sect from the Mesopotamia area, call the Demiurge Ptahil. Clearly Ptah and Osiris are the same god as the Demiurge. The Demiurge proclaims he is the only god. They believe Abraham and Moses were false prophets (probably because they worship Jehovah instead of Elohim). It appears to me Jehovah is the same god as Ptah, Osiris, and the Demiurge. The freemasons believe the true name of god is Jehovah Baal Osiris.

]]> By: onika http://www.fairblog.org/2009/11/16/jehovah-in-old-testament-world/comment-page-1/#comment-29874 onika Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:59:27 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/?p=730#comment-29874 This looks like a very interesting book since it addresses the records of other civilizations. I have discovered from my studies that the writers of Genesis were astrologers. I would like to know why. Here is my evidence: The ages of the patriarchs are based on the star cycles and each one is assigned to a star kingdom. Nimrod, the mighty hunter before the Lord, is a reference to the constellation of Orion. The god of Orion is Osiris, who is also Ptah, and I'm sure he has some other names as well. Nimrod, revered by the freemasons for being a great craftsman, is either Osiris or a servant of Osiris. Ptah and Osiris are both creator and craftsman. The Demiurge of the Gnostics is the creator and craftsman. He is a lesser god. His symbol is the serpent. He has the same role as Jehovah. Moses raised the serpent up. The freemasons and our church both have the symbols of the craftsman. The serpent, told Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so she could gain wisdom. Afterward she knew how to procreate. In that sense he would be a creator god. Is the serpent really Jehovah? This looks like a very interesting book since it addresses the records of other civilizations. I have discovered from my studies that the writers of Genesis were astrologers. I would like to know why. Here is my evidence:

The ages of the patriarchs are based on the star cycles and each one is assigned to a star kingdom. Nimrod, the mighty hunter before the Lord, is a reference to the constellation of Orion. The god of Orion is Osiris, who is also Ptah, and I’m sure he has some other names as well. Nimrod, revered by the freemasons for being a great craftsman, is either Osiris or a servant of Osiris. Ptah and Osiris are both creator and craftsman. The Demiurge of the Gnostics is the creator and craftsman. He is a lesser god. His symbol is the serpent. He has the same role as Jehovah. Moses raised the serpent up. The freemasons and our church both have the symbols of the craftsman. The serpent, told Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so she could gain wisdom. Afterward she knew how to procreate. In that sense he would be a creator god. Is the serpent really Jehovah?

]]> By: OTFTW 1: Out of the Best Books | Faith-Promoting Rumor http://www.fairblog.org/2009/11/16/jehovah-in-old-testament-world/comment-page-1/#comment-29871 OTFTW 1: Out of the Best Books | Faith-Promoting Rumor Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:08:13 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/?p=730#comment-29871 [...] the new Jehovah and the World of the Old Testament, which has been reviewed in the Naccle here, here, and [...] [...] the new Jehovah and the World of the Old Testament, which has been reviewed in the Naccle here, here, and [...]

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