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	<title>Comments on: Bowman on Ordination</title>
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	<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/</link>
	<description>Defending Mormonism</description>
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		<title>By: Keller</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-26015</link>
		<dc:creator>Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-26015</guid>
		<description>Onika,

While your observation that the term &quot;elder&quot; can be reference to age is a nice contribution to this discussion, it is hardly representative of the usage range &quot;elder&quot; had in the early christian milieu. I think R.A. Campbell has a point that &quot;elder&quot; could be a generic honorific that includes all church officers who were generally called the ranks of established family men. LDS author Grant Underwood makes a similar point in the reference in my recent blog. For me that helps explain why it is hard for scholars to distinguish between bishops (overseers) and presbyters (elders). For example Raymond Brown utilized the hybrid presbyter-bishops, allowing missionary outposts in different cultures to take a separate development arc and seeing Luke and Paul harmonize the two conceptual officers towards the end of Acts. Then the monarchial bishop gradually emerged to rule over a college (quorum) of elders. That is one development model and I address another in my Bishops and Deacons post. The house church model has bishops and elders arising from the family patriarchs that hosted Church meetings and then gradually formed a hierarchy. I am not totally sold on a model yet, they all seem to have their strengths and weaknesses. 

Another approach I have been evaluating, observes that bishops were very close in function with mebaqqers such as found among the Essenes. Ultimately mebaqqer derive from pagan (Persian and Greek) concepts of an overseer. Nibley points out how 2nd century and onwards bishops shared many traits in common with their pagan counterparts, but I think some more recent scholarship explains how such an influence crept in much earlier.


&quot;None of those references say they are appointing elders.&quot;

You are right. I tried to pack too much into one sentence in my summary of Merkle&#039;s article. Specifically the list I quote shows instances of laying on of hands sometimes in the context of commissioning and sometimes in receiving the Holy Ghost. It is only after considering his other passages-- Acts 14:23, Titus 1:5 and 1 Tim 4:14-- that his comment about elders makes sense.

And for the record I do not agree with Merkle on all his points. His article stops being useful to me when it engages in polemics against Episcopalian ordinations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Onika,</p>
<p>While your observation that the term &#8220;elder&#8221; can be reference to age is a nice contribution to this discussion, it is hardly representative of the usage range &#8220;elder&#8221; had in the early christian milieu. I think R.A. Campbell has a point that &#8220;elder&#8221; could be a generic honorific that includes all church officers who were generally called the ranks of established family men. LDS author Grant Underwood makes a similar point in the reference in my recent blog. For me that helps explain why it is hard for scholars to distinguish between bishops (overseers) and presbyters (elders). For example Raymond Brown utilized the hybrid presbyter-bishops, allowing missionary outposts in different cultures to take a separate development arc and seeing Luke and Paul harmonize the two conceptual officers towards the end of Acts. Then the monarchial bishop gradually emerged to rule over a college (quorum) of elders. That is one development model and I address another in my Bishops and Deacons post. The house church model has bishops and elders arising from the family patriarchs that hosted Church meetings and then gradually formed a hierarchy. I am not totally sold on a model yet, they all seem to have their strengths and weaknesses. </p>
<p>Another approach I have been evaluating, observes that bishops were very close in function with mebaqqers such as found among the Essenes. Ultimately mebaqqer derive from pagan (Persian and Greek) concepts of an overseer. Nibley points out how 2nd century and onwards bishops shared many traits in common with their pagan counterparts, but I think some more recent scholarship explains how such an influence crept in much earlier.</p>
<p>&#8220;None of those references say they are appointing elders.&#8221;</p>
<p>You are right. I tried to pack too much into one sentence in my summary of Merkle&#8217;s article. Specifically the list I quote shows instances of laying on of hands sometimes in the context of commissioning and sometimes in receiving the Holy Ghost. It is only after considering his other passages&#8211; Acts 14:23, Titus 1:5 and 1 Tim 4:14&#8211; that his comment about elders makes sense.</p>
<p>And for the record I do not agree with Merkle on all his points. His article stops being useful to me when it engages in polemics against Episcopalian ordinations.</p>
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		<title>By: onika</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-26002</link>
		<dc:creator>onika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-26002</guid>
		<description>Benjamin Merkle, a Baptist scholar, compiled list from the New Testament (Acts 6:6; 8:17, 19; 9:12, 17; 13:3; 19:6; 28:8; also see 1 Tim 5:22) depicting the laying on of hands which he writes “is often associated with the appointing of elders” or alternatively “is often associated with the appointing or commissioning of someone for a specific office or task.” 

None of those references say they are appointing elders.  Elders are just that--elderly, older:

1 Peter 5:
  1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
  2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
  3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
  4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
  5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benjamin Merkle, a Baptist scholar, compiled list from the New Testament (Acts 6:6; 8:17, 19; 9:12, 17; 13:3; 19:6; 28:8; also see 1 Tim 5:22) depicting the laying on of hands which he writes “is often associated with the appointing of elders” or alternatively “is often associated with the appointing or commissioning of someone for a specific office or task.” </p>
<p>None of those references say they are appointing elders.  Elders are just that&#8211;elderly, older:</p>
<p>1 Peter 5:<br />
  1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:<br />
  2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;<br />
  3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.<br />
  4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.<br />
  5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.</p>
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		<title>By: frewisery</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-16973</link>
		<dc:creator>frewisery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-16973</guid>
		<description>very  intresting</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very  intresting</p>
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		<title>By: Deacons then and now &#124; FAIR Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-12646</link>
		<dc:creator>Deacons then and now &#124; FAIR Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-12646</guid>
		<description>[...] against Mormon interpretations of priesthood activity in the New Testament in an earlier post Bowman on Ordination. See the link there in to see Bowman&#8217;s actual positions. I really don&#8217;t have much to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] against Mormon interpretations of priesthood activity in the New Testament in an earlier post Bowman on Ordination. See the link there in to see Bowman&#8217;s actual positions. I really don&#8217;t have much to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kookimebux</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-12443</link>
		<dc:creator>kookimebux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-12443</guid>
		<description>Hello. And Bye. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello. And Bye. <img src='http://www.fairblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lance Starr</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-11618</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-11618</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read Bowman&#039;s arguments but isn&#039;t he undermining hiw own evangelical position by arguing for any ordinations at all?

Lance</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read Bowman&#8217;s arguments but isn&#8217;t he undermining hiw own evangelical position by arguing for any ordinations at all?</p>
<p>Lance</p>
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		<title>By: Keller</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-11171</link>
		<dc:creator>Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-11171</guid>
		<description>King, Your reference to temple ordinances brings up a point that I alluded to in my post. There is certainly a difference between an ordained elder and an endowed elder. The latter can perform duties that the former can&#039;t, such as go on a mission. It would also be un-thinkable in today&#039;s church that one could be considered an apostle without temple ordinances.

The relevance of this observation is that ordination does not tell the whole story. Under the Law of Moses, priests were consecrated via a purification ritual which empowered them to perform some temple ordinances. The High Priest also had a special initiation ceremony. So at most, my original blog entry really only explores one aspect of how priesthood holders become empowered and authorized to perform their duties.

I may actually disagree with your contrasting intellectual exploration with gaining a testimony. There are several scripture passages that suggest that we should study things out in our minds as a pre- or co-requisite to receiving spiritual confirmation or enlightenment. I have sought after the best of man&#039;s knowledge to establish a plausible reconstruction of ordination in early Christianity and have avoided labeling it as &quot;proof.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>King, Your reference to temple ordinances brings up a point that I alluded to in my post. There is certainly a difference between an ordained elder and an endowed elder. The latter can perform duties that the former can&#8217;t, such as go on a mission. It would also be un-thinkable in today&#8217;s church that one could be considered an apostle without temple ordinances.</p>
<p>The relevance of this observation is that ordination does not tell the whole story. Under the Law of Moses, priests were consecrated via a purification ritual which empowered them to perform some temple ordinances. The High Priest also had a special initiation ceremony. So at most, my original blog entry really only explores one aspect of how priesthood holders become empowered and authorized to perform their duties.</p>
<p>I may actually disagree with your contrasting intellectual exploration with gaining a testimony. There are several scripture passages that suggest that we should study things out in our minds as a pre- or co-requisite to receiving spiritual confirmation or enlightenment. I have sought after the best of man&#8217;s knowledge to establish a plausible reconstruction of ordination in early Christianity and have avoided labeling it as &#8220;proof.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: KingOfTexas</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-11150</link>
		<dc:creator>KingOfTexas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-11150</guid>
		<description>What if I told you A friend of mine; Rob Shaw worked at Temple Square conferred the melchizedek on me? Oh, he was a carpenter too.  By the way this is true.
  In a thousand years when the devil is loosed for a short season, this statement could cause the same confusion. We all know he laid hands upon me. The bishops out there know he was checked for a current temple recommend. Let’s face it we know what was entailed. We also know I didn’t have to go to the temple or have someone from the temple perform the ordinance. It doesn’t have to be a friend, your father or the bishop. I’m not even going to touch the carpenter thing. 
  Trying to use mans knowledge and understanding to prove something that is Godly is like a dog chasing its tail. It’s cute at first, then it is funny. Finally  it becomes stupid. You might finally catch your tail. But what have you gained? You can say I reasoned it out because I am so smart. You still have no testimony. And like the dog all you have done is bite your self .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if I told you A friend of mine; Rob Shaw worked at Temple Square conferred the melchizedek on me? Oh, he was a carpenter too.  By the way this is true.<br />
  In a thousand years when the devil is loosed for a short season, this statement could cause the same confusion. We all know he laid hands upon me. The bishops out there know he was checked for a current temple recommend. Let’s face it we know what was entailed. We also know I didn’t have to go to the temple or have someone from the temple perform the ordinance. It doesn’t have to be a friend, your father or the bishop. I’m not even going to touch the carpenter thing.<br />
  Trying to use mans knowledge and understanding to prove something that is Godly is like a dog chasing its tail. It’s cute at first, then it is funny. Finally  it becomes stupid. You might finally catch your tail. But what have you gained? You can say I reasoned it out because I am so smart. You still have no testimony. And like the dog all you have done is bite your self .</p>
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		<title>By: John Pack Lambert</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-10937</link>
		<dc:creator>John Pack Lambert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-10937</guid>
		<description>It seems though that the evidence for laying on of hands is quite wide spread.  My coments on form may have been pre-mature, but I think we have to remember that we claim the same organization on general principal and not specific cases.  Paul said a Deacon should be married.
   One of the arguments used by some who broke away from the Church was that Heber J. Grant had changed the method of ordaining and it was no longer an acceptable one.  However the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants give different wordings, and even Joseph F. Smith who had favored a different wording than President Grant had issued a letter where he emphasized that having gone through the exact wording, or even being grammatically correct when confering the priesthood were not neccesary as long as it was known what the intent was and people could understand the intent involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems though that the evidence for laying on of hands is quite wide spread.  My coments on form may have been pre-mature, but I think we have to remember that we claim the same organization on general principal and not specific cases.  Paul said a Deacon should be married.<br />
   One of the arguments used by some who broke away from the Church was that Heber J. Grant had changed the method of ordaining and it was no longer an acceptable one.  However the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants give different wordings, and even Joseph F. Smith who had favored a different wording than President Grant had issued a letter where he emphasized that having gone through the exact wording, or even being grammatically correct when confering the priesthood were not neccesary as long as it was known what the intent was and people could understand the intent involved.</p>
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		<title>By: John Pack Lambert</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-10936</link>
		<dc:creator>John Pack Lambert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-10936</guid>
		<description>The fact that Nephi and others specifically state that many &quot;plain and precious&quot; truths were removed from the Bible make it unlikely that we will find a full understanding of the passage of priesthood office in the New Testament.
  Bowman does not accept the basic notion of continuing revleation, that the methods and structure of the Church now are those revelaed by God to us.  Although we believe in the same organization that existed anciently, we also recognize that it is manifest differently because God speaks to every man in his own language.
  It may be true that some people always, and maybe all of us sometimes, make anarchonistic assumptions about the passing of the priesthood.  Is the laying on of hands a neccesary intrinsic act, or is it an outward form with cultural meanings?  Theoretically could you have a culture so different than ours where the Lord would have the priesthood passed by men laying lenthwise to eachother on a bench and pressing head to hear?  I mean, if we are going to be literalistic, if the head recieves the priesthood than the head should confer it right?
  Obviously we do not think so, but if we were to in an unlikely but possible occurance have a new set of scriptures come to light from ancient Australia and learn that the people here who communed with God did ordinations in this way, it would just show that God speaks to people in their own language, not only with verbal but non-verbal symbols.
  I guess my major point is that we know far too litte about events in New Testament times, but we also must remember that language goes beyond spoken words and the way conferal of authority is done is not an unflexible principal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that Nephi and others specifically state that many &#8220;plain and precious&#8221; truths were removed from the Bible make it unlikely that we will find a full understanding of the passage of priesthood office in the New Testament.<br />
  Bowman does not accept the basic notion of continuing revleation, that the methods and structure of the Church now are those revelaed by God to us.  Although we believe in the same organization that existed anciently, we also recognize that it is manifest differently because God speaks to every man in his own language.<br />
  It may be true that some people always, and maybe all of us sometimes, make anarchonistic assumptions about the passing of the priesthood.  Is the laying on of hands a neccesary intrinsic act, or is it an outward form with cultural meanings?  Theoretically could you have a culture so different than ours where the Lord would have the priesthood passed by men laying lenthwise to eachother on a bench and pressing head to hear?  I mean, if we are going to be literalistic, if the head recieves the priesthood than the head should confer it right?<br />
  Obviously we do not think so, but if we were to in an unlikely but possible occurance have a new set of scriptures come to light from ancient Australia and learn that the people here who communed with God did ordinations in this way, it would just show that God speaks to people in their own language, not only with verbal but non-verbal symbols.<br />
  I guess my major point is that we know far too litte about events in New Testament times, but we also must remember that language goes beyond spoken words and the way conferal of authority is done is not an unflexible principal.</p>
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		<title>By: Keller</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-10902</link>
		<dc:creator>Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-10902</guid>
		<description>Greg, the Ehat reference is wonderful, but I didn&#039;t cite it due to accessibility. Which reminds me I need to provide a link to the Esplin article which provides a good summary of Ehat&#039;s thesis.

Tod, good questions. I am not sure I have a one size fits all answer, but each anomaly is worth contemplation. If I have any method it would be to develop a sound understanding from the familiar and common before trying to speculate about anomalies. I believe we are more entitled to receive inspiration about the underlying meaning behind what we are commanded to do than we are for people in other circumstances. 

I like what section 84 reveals about the priesthood &quot;in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.&quot; I think that Ferguson somewhat understates that the laying of hands accompanied prayer. What I think really happened is that it accompanied prophecy. The ordainer speaks as moved by the Holy Ghost, or as Mattingly puts it the laying on of hands represented the word of God. The word of God provides blessings and promises that empower the ordained to meet the challenges of his assigned responsibilities. Some secondary purposes of ordaining is that it allows the congregation to recognize the authority of the ordained and it passes on a portion of the honor (or mantel) from ordainer to the ordained (following Numbers 27). &quot;No man taketh this honor unto himself&quot; Hebrews 5:4

At least some of this analysis is transferable to other situations that call for imposition of hands like the bestowal of the Holy Ghost or performing a healing blessing. If the laying on of hands physically represents the word of God through prophecy, it is worthwhile to consider that the word of God can be relayed through other mechanisms. One might notice that some anomalies are associated with Jesus being present. While Jesus at times has laid down the proper steps to follow for various ordinances and even set a &quot;proper&quot; example, I think some of his anomalous examples help us understand the reality behind the symbol better. Jesus&#039; physical presence was a big enough sign that the word of God was being spoken.

Other anomalies occur at the beginning of dispensations, perhaps as logistics problem (who else could have baptized Adam?) or to emphasize some aspect of an ordinance that might get lost in rote and repetitious mechanics. Other times a pentecostal-like experience is needed to help establish the efficacy of that ordinance in the sacred memory of believers, even if such an experience is not reproduced on the scale in every subsequent instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, the Ehat reference is wonderful, but I didn&#8217;t cite it due to accessibility. Which reminds me I need to provide a link to the Esplin article which provides a good summary of Ehat&#8217;s thesis.</p>
<p>Tod, good questions. I am not sure I have a one size fits all answer, but each anomaly is worth contemplation. If I have any method it would be to develop a sound understanding from the familiar and common before trying to speculate about anomalies. I believe we are more entitled to receive inspiration about the underlying meaning behind what we are commanded to do than we are for people in other circumstances. </p>
<p>I like what section 84 reveals about the priesthood &#8220;in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.&#8221; I think that Ferguson somewhat understates that the laying of hands accompanied prayer. What I think really happened is that it accompanied prophecy. The ordainer speaks as moved by the Holy Ghost, or as Mattingly puts it the laying on of hands represented the word of God. The word of God provides blessings and promises that empower the ordained to meet the challenges of his assigned responsibilities. Some secondary purposes of ordaining is that it allows the congregation to recognize the authority of the ordained and it passes on a portion of the honor (or mantel) from ordainer to the ordained (following Numbers 27). &#8220;No man taketh this honor unto himself&#8221; Hebrews 5:4</p>
<p>At least some of this analysis is transferable to other situations that call for imposition of hands like the bestowal of the Holy Ghost or performing a healing blessing. If the laying on of hands physically represents the word of God through prophecy, it is worthwhile to consider that the word of God can be relayed through other mechanisms. One might notice that some anomalies are associated with Jesus being present. While Jesus at times has laid down the proper steps to follow for various ordinances and even set a &#8220;proper&#8221; example, I think some of his anomalous examples help us understand the reality behind the symbol better. Jesus&#8217; physical presence was a big enough sign that the word of God was being spoken.</p>
<p>Other anomalies occur at the beginning of dispensations, perhaps as logistics problem (who else could have baptized Adam?) or to emphasize some aspect of an ordinance that might get lost in rote and repetitious mechanics. Other times a pentecostal-like experience is needed to help establish the efficacy of that ordinance in the sacred memory of believers, even if such an experience is not reproduced on the scale in every subsequent instance.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-10900</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-10900</guid>
		<description>In addition to Brigham Young&#039;s non-canonical statement could be added the following: Andrew F. Ehat&#039;s “Joseph Smith’s Introduction of Temple Ordinances and the 1844 Mormon Succession Question”. MA thesis. Brigham Young University, 1982.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to Brigham Young&#8217;s non-canonical statement could be added the following: Andrew F. Ehat&#8217;s “Joseph Smith’s Introduction of Temple Ordinances and the 1844 Mormon Succession Question”. MA thesis. Brigham Young University, 1982.</p>
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		<title>By: Tod Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/22/bowman-on-ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-10892</link>
		<dc:creator>Tod Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=377#comment-10892</guid>
		<description>Excellent response.  I makes you wonder about the potential purposes of anomalies.  For instance the case of the Holy Ghost baptizing Adam in Moses 6.  Thoughts?  Or is that an entirely different subject?  Yes and yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent response.  I makes you wonder about the potential purposes of anomalies.  For instance the case of the Holy Ghost baptizing Adam in Moses 6.  Thoughts?  Or is that an entirely different subject?  Yes and yes.</p>
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