In between your sarcasm, it does not seem that you have paid very close attention to the discussion up to now. Since you are coming in late, hopefully we can make some things clear.

1) In the first place, FAIR does not hold the positions which you attribute to it.

FAIR endorses no geographical model of the Book of Mormon. There are members of FAIR who hold a North American model, some hold a continental model, some favor a Mesoamerican model, and a sizeable chunk don’t care and have no real opinion on the matter at all.

This is made very clear at the beginning of each section of the review listed here.

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2) In the second place, Joseph Smith made several statements about Book of Mormon geography. These statements changed over time–indicating that either he got revelation later in the process OR that he was speaking of his own best assessment of the evidence, and this changed as he learned more.

You can see all statements made by the prophet Joseph Smith here.

You can read about this and treatment of the evidence in our review of Rod Meldrum’s material here. You will note he both ignored evidence which did not fit his model, and distorted some which he did cite.

3) FAIR is not making the statement that prophets do not automatically know everything, especially peripheral details. FAIR has drawn that conclusion via numerous scriptures and statements of the modern prophets and apostles.

Joseph Smith himself said that a prophet was only a prophet “when he was acting as such.” Scripture makes it clear that even serious matters affecting the progress of the Church were not always revealed to Joseph (D&C 10:37).

In the LDS tradition, prophets are not omniscient, nor are they infallible

As George Q. Cannon explained:

The Presidency of the Church have to walk just as you walk. They have to take steps just as you take steps. They have to depend upon the revelations of God as they come to them. They cannot see the end from the beginning, as the Lord does. They have their faith tested as you have your faith tested. So with the Twelve Apostles. All that we can do is to seek the mind and will of God, and when that comes to us, though it may come in contact [conflict?] with every feeling that we have previously entertained, we have no option but to take the step that God points out, and to trust to Him… [George Q. Cannon, “Enduring to the End,” 5 October 1890; reported in ''Collected Discourses: delivered by Wilford Woodruff, his two counselors, the twelve apostles, and others'', Vol. 2, edited and compiled by Brian H. Stuy, (Woodland Hills, Utah: B. H. S. Publishing, 1988), 115–116.]

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Finally, leaders of the Church have repeatedly been clear that there is no revealed location for Book of Mormon geography.

FAIR aims to support and defend the leaders of the Church. And our review used their words on this point.

If you are convinced that the Church and its leaders are neglecting a revelation to the prophet Joseph Smith on Book of Mormon geography, and not teaching it, perhaps you should make your concern known by writing to:

President Boyd K. Packer
President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
50 E. North Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

You should explain to him how he and the other prophets and apostles are ignoring a revelation to Joseph Smith. You may even with to point out how FAIR members are also guilty of “heresy” on this point, as you put it, and that many employees of the Church’s flagship university (BYU, in Provo) have published and taught the same thing for over fifty years. You should also point out that Rod Meldrum is trying to correct this matter.

Please let us know how he replies.

Your recent comment on this and other blog threads (making essentially the same claims) are, unfortunately, why FAIR believed it was necessary to respond to the material and claims made by Rod Meldrum which are at variance with the teachings of the living prophets and the historical record.

I hope you will examine the evidence and refrain from charging members of the Church (including the prophets and apostles) who do not agree with you with heresy or a rejection of Joseph Smith’s or Brigham Young’s prophetic role.

Best wishes,

Greg Smith

That’s not necessarily true. Mormon does not note sparseness in the land northward, but does note how large the population is southward.

Oh, I don’t think that’s true, because we know the plates were buried at the hill cumorah. Why is it unreasonable to start at that location?

Great. My husband needs to learn about this….

We have certainly walked over the some of the same ground in Manitoba. The DNA issue of haplogroup x is highly controversial, mainly because of the timeline beyond the Book of Mormon migration years. I get a kick out of science arguments about this, because DNA of humans already indicate a beginning much older than the Bible chronology. The bottom line is, no scientific proof can be found to indisputably verify the Book of Mormon because of what it would do to the need for faith. When a focus of study becomes too concentrated in one geographical area, many things are overlooked in other places. Entire groups of people who interacted in the 19th century gathering are disregarded because of popular scholarly models. I am not proposing that what I mentioned is right, simply that there is much more to consider than ancient ruins of long ago.

With age comes wisdom. I do not understand much about DNA but I hope you are correct on the subject. I was very interested in your thoughts on Ephraim and the bison. Here is a quote from Monte S Nyman on the subject:

“All interpreters agree that the white bull represents the David Messiah, while the buffalo (wild ox) immediately brings to mind the blessing given to Joseph in Deuteronomy 33:13-17. The great horns with which the bullock is to push Israel together are “the emblem of Messiah ben Joseph” according to The Jewish Encyclopedia. Of this Enoch passage Charles Torrey writes:
In thus seems assured, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the “great animal” of Enoch 90:38, destined to appear in the very last days, is the Messiah ben Joseph. It is not by accident that the words with which he is introduced, “and the foremost among them (the cattle) was the buffalo,” repeat the beginning of Deut. 33:17: “The firstling of his herd, … his horns are the horns of the wild-ox.” The author of Enoch, who knew the Jewish tradition, intended by his “buffalo” the divine-human scion of Joseph’s house. With the buffalo, yet above him, stood the white bull, the Anointed One of David’s line; “and the Lord of the sheep rejoiced over them both.” (Monte S. Nyman, ed., Isaiah and the Prophets: Inspired Voices from the Old Testament, p.14)

You wrote:

**I wonder if you fully realize the North American river drainage. Along the Minnesota/North Dakota border, the Red River flows from south to north, draining into Lake Winnipeg, which in turn drains into Hudson Bay through the Nelson River. To the east of the Red River, in Minnesota, are the headwaters of the Mississippi at Lake Itasca, and it flows south. West of North Dakota, in Montana, the Missouri river begins, and crosses both North and South Dakota on it’s flow southward. In one region rivers are flowing both directions.**

Having spent most of my life in Alberta, courted my wife while she was attending the University of Manitoba, and spent many days near the headwaters of the Missouri River, I am somewhat familiar with the rivers of which you speak.

Helaman 3:8

“And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.”

Thanks for your comments.

-Theodore

“Nothing fits properly with the river running from south to north, whether it is in Mesoamerica or Northern US, and nothing ever will. It’s trying to put square pegs into round holes. There is no solution to the puzzle with the river running from south to north because it didn’t”.

I do not disagree with you, but I wonder if you fully realize the North American river drainage. Along the Minnesota/North Dakota border, the Red River flows from south to north, draining into Lake Winnipeg, which in turn drains into Hudson Bay through the Nelson River. To the east of the Red River, in Minnesota, are the headwaters of the Mississippi at Lake Itasca, and it flows south. West of North Dakota, in Montana, the Missouri river begins, and crosses both North and South Dakota on it’s flow southward. In one region rivers are flowing both directions.