A Faulty Apologetic for the Book of Mormon
by Allen Wyatt on July 3rd, 2008FAIR provides an “Ask the Apologist” service to which people send questions. In recent months many well-meaning individuals have asked why FAIR has not endorsed DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography, a DVD created and promoted by Rodney Meldrum.
Mr. Meldrum’s DVD is essentially a four-hour video of a shorter “fireside” presentation he has been making around the nation for months. Mr. Meldrum presents himself as a researcher who has carefully and methodically analyzed information related to Native Americans, LDS history, scientific findings, and scripture. Indeed, he touts his video as “correlation and verification [of the Book of Mormon] through DNA, prophetic, scriptural, historical, climatological, archaeological, social, and cultural evidence.”
That’s a tall order, even for a four-hour video. It would appear that Mr. Meldrum has, in approximately three years of research, uncovered the “verification” (read that as “proof”) that has somehow escaped prophets, leaders, scholars, and students for most of the past two centuries. And, he is on a mission to bring that knowledge to the world, starting with the Church.
To those unfamiliar with DNA science, population genetics, and the historical facts, the information presented in the DVD (and Mr. Meldrum’s presentations) may appear plausible and welcome. FAIR volunteers recently examined the DVD, attended presentations, exchanged e-mails with Mr. Meldrum, and talked with him. After reviewing the material he presents, examining the existing LDS and scientific literature, and consulting experts in the relevant fields, FAIR cannot support or endorse Mr. Meldrum’s theories or presentation. FAIR has unreservedly concluded the following:
- Mr. Meldrum has attempted to assert revelation for those outside of his stewardship, and has used that revelation as a substitute for solid scholarship.
- The DVD contains much material that is misrepresented because the author is unfamiliar with the large body of work that addresses the very topics he seeks to address.
- The DVD plants erroneous concepts and expectations in the minds of viewers, making them easier targets for hostile critics when these errors are inevitably trumpeted by enemies of the Church.
These conclusions are addressed, in varying levels of detail, in two overview papers recently made available on the FAIR Website. The first overview paper is a five-page executive summary, available in either HTML format or PDF format. (The PDF format is better for printing and handing to other people, if desired.)
The second overview paper is the “full version,” which goes into more detail. Entitled Misguided Zeal and Defense of the Church, it is also available in either HTML format or PDF format.
Church members, when considering Mr. Meldrum’s DVD and presentation, would do well to remember the counsel of President Harold B. Lee:
“Now this is something that needs repeating to this great body of priesthood, because we have a rash of writings by certain persons who claim to be in good standing in the Church, going into considerable detail as they recite their past and present Church affiliations and activities in the forward and advertising. There are sensational predictions and observations, and to make their writings appear to have Church sanction, they use quotations and addresses from Church leaders, past and present, taken out of context in such a way as to make it appear as though these quotations were an endorsement of the book they wish to sell to Church members, who may thereby be induced to accept their writings as from unquestioned sources …. Furthermore, some designing individuals have solicited opportunities to speak at Church gatherings, firesides, priesthood quorums, sacrament meetings. Now, brethren, we feel it is of the utmost importance to lift a warning voice so that our people will be safeguarded against such tactics as an all too obvious self-seeking opportunity to spread their own propaganda for their own interests. We must urge that priesthood leaders use careful discretion in screening out those whose motives may be subject to serious questions.” (Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, April, 1973, 127-28).
Mr. Meldrum appears sincere in his beliefs about the Book of Mormon. FAIR is worried, however, by the means Mr. Meldrum uses to promote his beliefs and the damage that his presentation and promotion could ultimately do to the faith of Church members. We have therefore concluded that Mr. Meldrum’s theories should be publicly addressed. These overview papers are just the first treatment of the DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography DVD.
-Allen
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:36 am
Very interesting. I’m curious, how does peer review work if you are just an amateur? Is it still possible to have papers reviewed? I have always been under the impression that you need some credentials for people to take your research seriously, but after reading the article I’m not sure.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 am
Edmun
Having participated in the peer review process for the past 40 years as a reviewer,a reviewee and one involved in choosing potential reviewers, I would like to point out that “peer review” is nothing more nor less than haveing your work reviewed by your peers. In other words by those who may and should be familiar with the topic, literature and scholarly work in the same field as your publication. Amateurs sometines make the best reviewers because they often have a broader knowledge of the subject and points of view different from the establishment. Credentials are important in some cases but knowledge of the field is the prime criteria for choosing a reviewer.
Larry P
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Thanks, I’m glad to see a stand for scholarship in your well-reasoned response to what you correctly label misguided zeal. I’m afraid there are too many people who want to believe things like Meldrum are preaching. Let’s hope that as members of the church we can promote honest, faithful, and solid apologetics.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Allen,
I came across your article with a Google news alert for anything MELDRUM “BOOK OF MORMON”.
Rather than announcing your judgments and justifications, you could be encouraging people to seek verification on their own through additional study and finally, prayer.
Teach them HOW to think, not WHAT to think. That would be a valuable service.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Strange that more information would be an impairment to thought. Perhaps you missed part 2, that discussed how real research into such matters is conducted.
It seems unlikely that God would confirm a revelatory geography when the Church has insisted that there isn’t a revelatory geography. As Part I demonstrates, anyone with such a revelation wouldn’t be justified in presenting it to anyone else, even if true.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 pm
You just need people who know something about your topic to agree that you’ve considered all the angles. They need not agree with you, just that you’ve been fair and thorough.
This can be done for LDS topics easily on a message board, like MADB. Meldrum even ventured there, and got a lot of really good advice and feedback. But, he chose not to respond to it, and it doesn’t seem to have impacted his presentation any.
See DNA Truthseeker here. People like Brant Gardner provided a lot of substantive replies on a host of issues. Cost? $0. His response to being told the Michigan relics are forgeries is particularly illuminating. It is also curious that he feels a need to praise his own work in the third person.
But, if you’ve quit your job because you think God has given you a sign to do this full time, you may have already made your decision.
July 4th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Greg wrote: “there isn’t a revelatory geography”
1. Right, so central America AND N.E. America stand as equal and worthy possibilities.
2. I never heard him claim any revelation.
July 4th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Guess I’m talking with Greg here… Allen, are you home?
1. why would FAIR care to “endorse” anything? Are there people who would accept or reject your blessing without reading and deciding for themselves?
2. “To those unfamiliar with DNA science, population genetics, and the historical facts” now THERE’s a tall order. Are you then speaking as one who is qualified in all these?
3. “experts in the relevant fields” May I have your links and sources?
4. [Rod] plants erroneous concepts and expectations in the minds of viewers, (that’s new? Ever visit a Gospel doctrine class? LOL) making them easier targets for hostile critics (OMG! you have become the enabler of dependency)
ok I’m done with this forum. I read thru the executive summary paper and halted at the misuse of quotes in footnote 11 in which Rod says much has been spent on central American theory. This quote doesn’t say he charged leaders with misuse of church funds.
BTW(“general consensus” is redundant. Consensus IS general agreement.)
July 4th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
I don’t speak for FAIR, but I can speak as a member and give my perspective on how I would see these things.
FAIR produces a number of resources and materials, with links to other sources. For example, the FAIR wiki. We received many questions from people asking why we weren’t using Meldrum’s “great research.” So, we checked it out. It turned out to be really bad research.
I can’t speak for Allen, but I am in _some_ areas. I have university training in genetics. I’ve read every paper than Meldrum cites in his DVD. And, FAIR does have access to a wide range of experts. We’ve had LDS PhD geneticists review our work on that topic, for instance. That’s the benefit of FAIR–one can draw on the expertise of many people. It’s not reasonable to expect any person, especially someone who’s just gone to a fireside out of interest, to master all this information. But, one can provide a service by amalgamating all the expertise in an easy-to-access package.
Don’t worry, it’s not that hard to learn enough to debunk the bad science. It isn’t cutting edge stuff.
You may when the rest of the material comes out. That’s what footnotes are for.
Nope, it’s not new. But, when people seek for signs, twist the words of the prophets, claim that there is a revealed answer to a question that the Church has always said wasn’t revealed, and THEN distort science, those who value the truth may have a duty to speak out.
I’m surprised this troubles you. If Meldrum has a right to express his views and opinions (which he certainly does), why don’t others have an equal right and privilege?
Surely people can look at Meldrum’s arguments, compare them to FAIR’s, and decide which to believe. We can’t compel belief, but we can provide extra information.
If he’s right, it will stand on its own merits.
FAIR certainly doesn’t gain anything by doing this, other than fulfill its efforts on behalf of other members as best it can. It’s not like we will win friends and accolades all around for dismissing something that some people think supports the Book of Mormon.
A pity you’re going to leave before you get answers to your questions.
For anyone else still reading, follow the logic with me:
Fact #1) Rod claims millions of dollars have been wasted looking for BoM lands in central America.
Fact #2) The Church has spent a great deal of time, money, and energy supporting things like BYU work, FARMS, and the New World Archaeology society in Chiapas, Mexico. Do you suppose the Church does work in Mexico simply because they like the climate? Was the establishment of the New World group utterly unrelated to issues of Book of Mormon geography? [If you think so, references please.]
If money spent looking in Central America is wasted, then the Church has wasted money at BYU, FARMS, and the New World. And, if anyone should have known about the revealed answers which Meldrum claims Joseph gave to Book of Mormon geography, it should have been the prophets, seers, and revelators. So, why didn’t they?
Or, is it only PRIVATE money that’s been wasted, but Church money well spent on a fool’s errand? One can’t have one’s cake and eat it too. Either the money is being wasted or it isn’t. Who has spent more money than the Church in that effort?
If I make two claims:
1) Anyone born in Virginia is an idiot
2) John Doe was born in Virginia
Would one seriously argue that I haven’t said anything bad about John? I might not _realize_ that I had thereby impugned John’s intelligence (because I don’t know he’s from Virginia), and when that fact is brought to my attention, I might well withdraw my ill-advised remark about Virginia.
Likewise, Meldrum might reassess and decide that “wasted” is the wrong expression. I’d be pleased to see him correct himself.
But, I can’t claim that the two statements don’t cause any reasonable listener to draw the obvious, inevitable conclusion. 1 & 2 lead inevitably to the conclusion that I think John is an idiot. This is basic logic.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Greg wrote: “there isn’t a revelatory geography”
Yup. FAIR has no position on such matters. We may have a position, though, on whether a given argument is a good one.
I suggest you read the intro doc again. The DVD’s section #3, on Joseph Smith, is also a gold mine.
July 5th, 2008 at 1:40 am
Hello, this is Rod Meldrum. I have prepared a 16 page statement and will addressing this review/article for its..
1. Blatant and inflammatory Lies — such as the FAIR false claim that I said in my DVD that the church leadership was ‘wasting’ money, which never occurred. FAIR has continuously attempted to put words into my mouth that are blatently not there to deliberately misrepresent my statements.
2. Conjecture — such as Midgley’s assessment of my knowledge of the subjects based on a harassing phone call over a year ago which is utter conjecture and here-say non-sense on his and FAIR’s part.
3. Innuendo (such as the false claims that I “avoid scholarly dialogue by claiming that [my] ideas are approved by God” which aside from being patently untrue, are based on where they think others (or themselves) might be lead if they follow their path of reasoning to its utmost conclusions. It is pure and total conjecture on their part, for I have said no such thing.
Unlike FAIR, I am submitting my response in private to them for their review prior to my determining if it will be posted. FAIR has agreed to post my response along side their review so as to be FAIR. We will all see if they are good to their word or not.
Fair board members Scott Gordan, John Lynch, Bob White, and Greg Smith (and possibly Allen Wyatt) and I had a phone conversation on Tuesday, July 1st from 7-8:30 AM from which I initiated a dialoge with them to address any issues they might have with my research. We determined to work together to correct any flaws that they saw were needed. This was what was understood from the conversation. Then less than 48 hours later this scathing review (which must have been already prepared in advance of our conversation) appeared on their website, completely blind-siding me and our agreement to work together because they wanted to ‘help a brother’ in the gospel. Lies, conjecture and innuendo are not generally accepted as the way to help someone. More to come… much, much more to come. Stay tuned. This review was to egregious to overlook, it must be addressed.
The Gold mine in Joseph Smith’s section #3 is Joseph’s Smith’s own claims to revelation on the matter in the Wentworth letter, the American Revivalist Account, the Zelph Account and his letter to his wife. I think Greg Smith is confusing Joseph’s quotes with what I say, along with throwing in a massive amount of conjecture, as I have never claimed to have received revelation on this matter as he claims more than 16 times in the un-named authors ‘extensive’ review that I have. This incredibly ill-produced and un-scholarly review may be removed once the board of FAIR has had the chance to review my response. Then again, they may choose to post my written response for a ‘FAIR and balanced’ review for their readership. I am fine with it either way. It will be their choice. I have nothing to hide, the DVD is out there for anyone to see and determine for themselves if it is right.
Most of FAIR’s assessment derives from an UNAUTHORIZED personal email sent to specific individuals who were being invited to participate in a meeting to discuss the new FIRM foundation. Someone of that group betrayed that trust and sent an unauthorized copy to FAIR. The board at FAIR knows that this was a personal and confidential email as I personally told the board members this during our phone conversation, yet they have chosen to publicly distribute portions of it on their website out of context and without an opportunity for explanation on my part. There is nothing that I am ashamed of having said, but there were very personal experiences that I was sharing with supporters that were not meant to be public knowledge. Yet, contrary to good intention, decency and decorum, they published it anyway with complete and utter disregard to my wishes and request. In my response I include the entirety of the email so that the readership of FAIR can see the entire document in context and with further explanation to clarify the intent. Again, there is nothing to hide, it was just very personal, spiritual things that now FAIR has determined to flaunt to the public in their vicious attack.
Be it known that any use of my personal, private email by FAIR is being done without my concent or authorization. I have requested that they hereby cease and desist in their continued use of that document voluntarily. We will see if they will honor that request, which would, of necessity, remove 90% of their attack article as thus far that has been the thrust of their personal character assasination against me.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:35 am
I look forward to seeing the statement as, I’m sure, does the rest of FAIR.
This is not a false claim. Here’s what you say in the conclusion to your video: “Now there’s been millions and millions of dollars have been spent in a vain attempt to show the Book of Mormon happened in Central America.”
Those are your words, Rod, made at approximately 4:20 seconds into the conclusion of your video. (I’ve also personally heard you say it in one of your firesides.) Who has been spending that money? The Church, or the Church’s agents, such as BYU and FARMS (the “Mesoamerican scholars” you dismiss at the beginning of your video).
If spending the millions of dollars is “vain,” isn’t that a waste? In your statement the words are synonymous. Are you going to refine your statement and now say that spending the money was not vain, that it was not a waste?
No, actually we’ve been very careful to quote your specific words. You might not like that your own words are being used, but those words are the basis of anything that FAIR has done.
Does the word “harassing” count as the same type of conjecture to which you are opposed?
While you may not care for Dr. Midgley’s conclusions about your knowledge concerning the extant scholarship, I can assure you that FAIR accurately reflected his conclusions. If you have a problem with them, you may need to take that up with Dr. Midgley.
Is this particular point #3 about innuendo or conjecture? If the latter, then it really is no different than point #2.
I’ll have to check with John Lynch (chairman of the Board) and Scott Gordon (President), but this doesn’t strike me as something we’ve done in the past. What we HAVE done is to provide links to responses, at the end of our papers. In other words, if someone gets done reading our overview, then we may provide a link to a response on YOUR site, where you have complete control over the quality and presentation of the response.
I was not in on the conversation. The only Board member that was in on the conversation was John Lynch, who is chairman of the Board of Directors. Scott Gordon is not a Board member, he is an officer (President). Both Bob White and Greg Smith are regular members of the organization.
Since I wasn’t in on the conversation, I will leave it to those who were to comment.
Lies? Do you really mean “lies?” You know that a lie includes intent, right? Are you prepared to show intent? If not, then you may want to use a word that actually removes intent, such as “mistake” or “falsehood.” (Just a suggestion.)
And, you are welcome to do so. Welcome to the world of academic review, Rod. Sometimes it is not a pleasant place when others–even others who are brothers and sisters in the gospel–take strong exception to what we have published and what we are promoting.
Greg can speak to whether he is confused or not, but I doubt that he is. And, you may want to go back and look at Joseph’s words again, but the items you cite (the Wentworth letter, an account in the American Revivalist, the Zelph account, and a letter to Emma) were not revelations.
I find it interesting that these four items have been known about and discussed for decades, and yet the leadership of the Church does not draw the same conclusions from them that you do. Why is that? If the evidence you cite is so compelling, if the statements by Joseph Smith are so crystal clear, then why hasn’t the Church come out and stated that the Book of Mormon geography took place where you said it did?
FAIR’s paper is documented with YOUR words, Rod. We’ll let the readers decide.
We shall see.
Interesting that you can use a private letter from Joseph Smith to Emma to bolster your case, but you don’t want a letter to your supporters to be used to evaluate your case. You complain that your words in your letter are being used out of context to support a position with which you disagree, yet you use Joseph’s words to Emma–out of context–to support a position on which he took no official stand.
Fascinating double standard at work here.
I can assure you that this was not an attack, nor was it vicious.
As to whether your e-mail was public or not, once you send it, it essentially becomes public. It doesn’t matter whether you send it to a small group of supporters or to the public at large–it is still in the open and can be evaluated.
The fact is, you sent an e-mail to a group of people (we have no idea how large the group was) who you wanted to meet with you and “discuss the new FIRM foundation.” You recounted in that e-mail spiritual experiences relative to the work you are doing. Toward what end, Rod? If it wasn’t to (1) show how God was providing His blessings to your work or (2) to invite the recipient to join with you in doing a work that God was sanctioning, then what was it? I doubt it was just filler, and I hope you will provide clarification as to why you would use personal spiritual experiences in an e-mail designed to try to get others to join you in your efforts.
Sort of like your use of Joseph’s personal, private mail to Emma? When does such correspondence (his or yours) become “fair game” for those staking out an academic position?
There has been no “character assassination,” Rod. We have questioned (so far) the way in which you are presenting your information. That does not speak to your character, in the least.
-Allen
July 5th, 2008 at 9:36 am
I don’t think so. You don’t even manage to get all of Joseph’s remarks from the Times and Seasons, which doesn’t speak well of either (a) the throughness of your research; or (b) your integrity if you knew about it and didn’t include it.
There are more sources that these “4 documents” you keep mentioning.
I was on the conversation, and this certainly was not the impression that I got. We pointed out many areas that needed improvement, but you did not evince any inclination to fix that vast majority of them. You didn’t even seem to think that you’d done anything wrong with your approach.
I left before the very end of the conversation, so perhaps Scott, Bob, and John took it all back, but I doubt it.
If I were you, I’d start with the distorted quoted from President Hinckley. It is clear from context is was not talking about members, but non-members. Using it to condemn LDS scholars who disagree with you is reprehensible, both intellectually and spiritually.
It is so overt, I have increasing difficulty believing it was unintentional. Your refusal to correct it only strengthens that impression.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:43 am
You’re not ashamed of asking God for a sign, and then telling others about that sign to encourage their support?
You’re not ashamed of using a private blessing to encourage others to think that your work is supported by God and His servants?
Astonishing.
If you didn’t want things to be public knowledge, why did you send them to multiple people and ask them to come to a meeting to support your foundation, which God had inspired you to choose the name?
Things that are private don’t get sent out in e-mails to multiple parties, or play part of invitations to meetings, Rod.
And, false claims to revelatory support don’t really matter if they’re made to a few people, or many. You can think what you want, but once you start telling others–even a few others–you crossed a line.
If you really want to claim the quotes are out of context, we could post the entire thing, if you wish.
Why do you want your “supporters” to know these things, but don’t want your audience to know? If you have nothing to be ashamed of, why does it matter if they know?
July 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Mr. Meldrum, all theories are welcome in the ongoing dialogue. But those theories must stand on their merits. I read the testimonials on your own website and they confirm the problem with your approach. This one is particularly revealing because it is based on a personal conversation with you.
I see two things that seem to result from your approach. Your supporters criticize BYU scholars (and by implication the church that supports them)and many have a belief that you are the bearer of “truth”. If it is not stated directly, as in the above recitation of a conversation with you, it is certainly implied that truth is by divine support which has eluded others who are trained and credentialed in what they do and work in church supported institutions.
It is time to step out on a level playing field and drop the claims to divine intervention. Let your theories speak for themselves. No one can object to that and no one will and most important, no one will be shaken when an academic theory is shown to be flawed.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
I’ve been following the criticism of Mr. Meldrum’s work (not OF Mr. Meldrum himself BTW) with some interest.
You know how C.S. Lewis is often considered a “closet Mormon” because of the many ways his books and essays reflect beliefs more similar to those of Latter-day Saints than Protestants? I’m convinced that perhaps all sincere theologians of other Christian denominations are to some degree closet Mormons.
Today I’ve decided that evangelical scholar William Lane Craig may be a closet Mormon. To some extent anyway. He considers himself a “classic apologist” — one who develops and uses evidence to support the existence of God and the veracity of the scriptures/resurrection. Curiously, however, he is of the opinion that the direct witness of the Holy Ghost plays a magisterial role in establishing for each individual the veracity of certain fundamental truth claims, e.g., the existence God, His love for us, scripture, etc. This horrifies most other Protestant apologists, who give “evidence” and “reason” the magisterial role and relegate the witness of the Holy Ghost to a superfluous, ministerial role.
(Oddly, Craig quickly dismisses the claims made by Latter-day Saints to “veridical” knowledge through the witness of the Holy Ghost, but that is another subject.)
Anyway, Craig attempts to define himself out of a jam with his fellow evangelicals by making a subtle, but important distinction. It is a distinction that Mr. Meldrum would be well served to take note of. The distinction is between “knowing” and “showing” — knowing truth for one’s self, and being able to show it to others. He says we can only know truth through the Holy Ghost, which is “self-authenticating” and which trumps reason and evidence, but that in showing faith we are constrained to rely on that same reason and evidence.
In short, he is asserting that the witness of the Holy Ghost is fundamental and non-transferable. Physical evidence may influence a person to seek the witness of the Holy Ghost, but it can not be a substitute for it.
The issue which I believe FAIR correctly flags in its essays on Mr. Meldrum’s apologetic approach is that Mr. Meldrum apparently conflates his right to presume to know for himself ONLY and showing, and in so doing advances his claimed spiritual witness as the “defeater” of all academic arguments. Well, at least he strongly implies that Latter-day Saints need to embrace His witness — he gives his witness as much play as any evidence he may have assembled. In doing so, he is out of order.
Despite employing Craig’s argument, I’m pretty sure it’s NOT in the Holy Ghost’s position description to witness correct Book of Mormon geography to us. I introduced Craig’s distinction primarily to introduce an important point Mr. Meldrum apparently misses. Like William Lane Craig advances, through the Holy Ghost we can know FUNDAMENTAL truths. To Craig’s list
above I would add 1) knowing that the Book of Mormon is also the word of God, and 2) knowing that Joseph Smith and his successors are true a prophets of God. We’re constrained to use more traditional methods to both know AND show other, less fundamental truths. In expanding the Holy Ghost’s duties into purely academic arenas, Mr. Meldum is once again out of order.
I wish him success in advancing the theory that Book of Mormon events occurred in the vicinity of the Great Lakes. Some responsible scholars do accept that model and argue it vigorously. I encourage Mr. Meldrum to become acquainted with their reason and evidence, as well as with the reason and evidence for other models.
With his zeal and energy properly focussed, I’m not so sure that if he were to join the ongoing dialog and drop the Lone Ranger approach, within five or ten years rank and file Latter-day Saint apologists won’t be more inclined to the model he is advancing. And that is intended to be both encouraging and complimentary.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:49 am
[...] FAIR gets dirty and personally attacks fellow Mormon apologist Rod Meldrum to squelch his Book of Mo… [...]
July 6th, 2008 at 10:34 am
For the first time just this morning I have glanced at the criticisms of Mr. Rod Meldrum’s speculation about Book of Mormon geography on this blog and also at his effort to defect this criticism. I noticed that he has drawn me into his diatribe with the following remark: “Conjecture — such as Midgley’s assessment of my knowledge of the subjects based on a harassing phone call over a year ago which is utter conjecture and here-say [sic] non-sense on his and FAIR’s part.”
Those who know me are aware that I take notes on conversations. This I did when I phoned Mr. Meldrum nearly a year ago. Our conversation was long, detailed and entirely civil. I sought some information about his (1) academic qualifications, (2) his familiarity with the scholarly literature on the matters about which he opines, (3) his current and previous employment and so forth.
The notes I made during and after our phone conversation are as follows:
The Midgley/Meldrum encounter
17 May 2008 - modified [on that date] in email message to Greg Smith, and taken from notes carefully taken during a phone conversation with Mr. Rod Meldrum. On 6 July 2008, I inserted some clarifications in brackets.]
[The following is a brief description of how I came to have had a phone conversation with Rod Meldrum.] I discovered that there was a Rod Meldrum by chance. On 26 August 2007, at our Stake Priesthood meeting, I got there early and sat close to the front. I noticed Harman Rector sitting in the second row to my right and slightly in front of where I was sitting. I thought it odd that he was there in our Priesthood meeting. But at the end of the meeting a fellow showed up and I told him that he was either very early or really late for some meeting. His alarm clock had failed and he had not made it on time. He wanted to meet Elder Rector. Why? Well he was involved with Rod Meldrum on a Book of Mormon project. I was shown a 2 DVD disk set, available for $19.95 and entitled “DNA Evidence for the Book of Mormon.”
I soon learned that Rodney Meldrum operated out of two addresses in Provo:
[redacted by blog administrator]
His number at his employment was [redacted] and his email address was [redacted].
Within a week I phoned Meldrum and we talked for more than an hour, perhaps for more than two hours.
[In this phone conversation] he told me that he was Senior Scientific Research Manager at some medical equipment company. [He explained that he demonstrated medical equipment–that was what he called "science."] I did not get the name of this company. [I had asked at which university or laboratory Mr. Meldrum does science. He told me that he was not involved with either a university or lab.] I asked him what training he had in science. He told he that he had none. He had attended Utah State University as a kid. He had hoped to get a degree in Business Administration (Marketing). But only attended Utah State for a year.
He had worked in sales. Then he founded company that produced freeze dried food that was sold widely just before the year 2000. He had made a lot of money, and had a huge factory. Then when the bug did not being the nation down, his sales ceased and he lost everything in a fire sale.
But now, after reading in the [news]papers about the claim that DNA disproves the Book of Mormon, he has the theory that he can prove the Book of Mormon true with DNA. He has in mind a marker [X] that seems to be European, which is also found in the Levant [aka eastern Mediterranian]. This DNA [marker] is also found in America right where the Lehi colony, including both the Nephites and Lamanites lived.
He claims that the people at the Sorensen Institute, including Scott Woodward, are in full agreement with him on his new DNA proof of the Book of Mormon.
When I asked him if he was familiar with the work done by the Maxwell Institute, he had no idea what that was. So I made reference to FARMS. Well, he said he had read some of that literature. He could recall having read a book by John Sorenson, but could not recall its name. I asked if he had heard about John Clark or Brant Gardner [and others]. He had not heard of them. I asked him if he was familiar with the LDS DNA experts who have published in the FARMS Review. He had not. He was not familiar with the FARMS Review.
I asked him why he had not bothered to become familiar with the best current scholarship on the very issues he was now addressing. He told me that he wanted to give the evidence a fresh look and not be corrupted by previous speculation.
I asked him if he had tried to construct an internal map of Book of Mormon geography from the host of clues in the book itself. He had no idea what I was talking about. So I explained what John Clark had done 19 years earlier [in the first issue of what is now called the FARMS Review]. He said that he had fashioned his Book of Mormon geography from the statements of Joseph Smith and the prophets. And then fit the DNA evidence to what had been revealed to prophets. And Elder Rector had given his work his blessing.
Meldrum explained that he was working with Wayne May and Ancient American Magazine. May, he said, had access to wonderful artifacts that are clearly the work of the Lehi colony. Exactly like May, Meldrum places the entire history of the Lehi colony that is recorded in the Book of Mormon in Western New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois and Missouri. He had then come around Africa from Arabia and up though the South Atlantic and land perhaps in Florida and then migrate immediately north.
I suggested that the genetic marker he thought was clearly one that identified Israel, was also found in Southern France and had arrived in the New World far too early to be Nephite. He was certain that I was not at all informed on DNA issues.
Meldrum told me that the DVD set he currently had was of poor quality and that I should wait a few weeks before ordering a new and improved set.
[Note: I neglected to purchase the new and improved set of Rod Meldrum's DVD set. However, others have subsequently done so, and have subjected it to careful review.]
July 6th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
I prayed about which theory is correct, and the spirit told me you are all religious fanatics that must be avoided.
Besides, I know EXACTLY where the BoM events occurred … in Joseph’s mind.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Having tracked the debate on Book of Mormon geography over the years, I find that Meldrum’s efforts on a Great Lakes theory score about as many points as FAIR’s efforts to support the central American theory du jour. Why don’t you sit down and cover these items point by point? You know, like Christian people.
If you really want to debate the DNA issue, tell me what definitive study has been done relative to pre-Columbian DNA.
If you want to help me understand, please tell me where in central America is a narrow neck of land that can be crossed in a day and a half
Where are the north, south, east and west seas and what is the great deep?
Where are the cement structures?
What is going on with the literally tons of arrow points and clubs that have been dug up in farms in Michigan over that last 150 years?
I find this “hissy fit” that FAIR and Meldrum are engaged in as immature and destructive. Neither of you come up clean when you throw mud. Sit down and analyze these points of theory and show us that you are truly brethren united by a restored gospel and I will turn my hearing aid back on.
July 6th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
FAIR endorses no theory of Book of Mormon geography. Individual members have their own views. I know of some who are agnostic, some Mesoamerican, some Great Lakes, and I think even some hemispheric…
We did nothing at all about Meldrum’s model until we learned of his use of priesthood blessings to supporters, claims that Joseph knew the geography by revelation when the Church says he didn’t, and miscitations of President Hinckley to condemn others. We knew some people wouldn’t be pleased that we said anything. I, for one, feel that I would not be true to my covenants and faith if I didn’t say something. If FAIR had not wanted to, I would have done so on my own.
I work as the wiki managing editor; I think you’ll find that all our geographic material attempts to cast as wide a net as possible. Unfortunately for other models, thus far the Mesoamericanists have produced far more data than the others. But, we still aim to cover as many bases as we can for interested readers. You can see every theory we know about listed here (I can’t swear it’s totally up to date):
http://en.fairmormon.org/Template:BoMGeoTableList
But, what should a Christian do if he has good evidence the Prophet’s words are being twisted? Meldrum was unable to even admit there was a problem when I and others spoke to him privately on multiple occasions.
Sometimes, being silent is not the Christian thing to do.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:32 am
This is Rod Meldrum, of whom FAIR has posted their opinion of my research contained in a recorded live presentation DVD titled “DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography; New scientific support for the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon” .
From the FAIR website (quoted below) we gain a proper perspective of the significance of the FAIR review of my research.
“FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR, and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice.”
As such, their collective opinions are no more, nor less, valid than any regular member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All members of the church are given the power of discernment through the gift of the Holy Ghost at baptism. It is encouraged that members use this God-given power to determine for themselves whether something is true or in error. Members need not assume that all truth must be first filtered through scholars before being able to find and know it for themselves.
“5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” (Book of Mormon | Moroni 10:5)
Members of FAIR have taken the research I have presented and the words I have spoken, and through what I believe to be conjecture and innuendo have misinterpreted and misrepresented them to imply things that I did not say nor intend.
I will not be drawn into further contentious argument and debate on the matter. This is contrary to the spirit of Christ.
“For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.” (Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 11:29)
To be clear exactly where I stand, I make the following statements.
I have not, and do not claim to receive revelation for the church or any of its leaders or members.
I support and sustain current and past prophets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as Prophets, seers and Revelators.
I do not represent the church in any way in this research, and so state in my DVD, my presentations, and on my website (www.bookofmormonevidence.org) .
I do ask daily for personal guidance from the Lord in all aspects of my life through prayer, including my research, and will not deny that I have on occasion felt his guiding influence in my life. This is not contrary to the teachings of the gospel. Please see the following scriptures. I believe the scriptures are true. Following are quotes from the standard works pertaining to this subject.
“35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh.” (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 4:35)
“7 Ask, and it shall be given unto you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
8 For every one that asketh, receiveth; and he that seeketh, findeth; and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.” (Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 14:7 -
“20 And whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is right, believing that ye shall receive, behold it shall be given unto you.” (Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 18:20)
“5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” (New Testament | James 1:5)
“7 But ye are commanded in all things to ask of God, who giveth liberally; and that which the Spirit testifies unto you even so I would that ye should do in all holiness of heart, walking uprightly before me,…” (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 46:7)
“64 Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you; (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:64)
I am doing my utmost to be a servant of God and his son, Jesus Christ, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I know that I am not perfect, and neither is my research. I state this up front in the DVD. As mistakes are found, I will correct them. Please note that the presentation under review was a 4-hour long, non-scripted presentation before a live audience from memory. I could not include much of the total research as the content was limited to a four hour DVD.
I have posted the following on my website at http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org . “Correction Notice: A quote from President Hinckley used in the presentation is used incorrectly and will be removed from the next version of the DVD and all future presentations. It was incorrectly understood that the Prophet was speaking of all people who dismiss Joseph Smith, including LDS scholars; however it has been brought to my attention that President Hinckley spoke specifically of non-members and did not specifically mention scholars. As stated in the live, non-scripted presentation, if there are mistakes they will be corrected.”
This is an example of my willingness to correct mistakes when shown that such is the case. FAIR did not give me the courtesy of enough time to make the correction before publishing their review as I was on the road and had no internet access and therefore could not review the material, nor make the change on my website.
I am simply presenting ideas and information. It is fully referenced to enable those who would like to study further to do so. The information is available for those who seek further knowledge on this subject.
I invite anyone who wants to know what I have actually said to review the information I present and then make their own decision. It is every member’s right and responsibility to study it out for them self, then pray and ask the Lord to determine what is truth and what is not. The scriptures are clear how to judge for yourself whether something is of God or not.
“5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.
10 Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.
11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.
12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.” (Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:5, 10- 19)
I testify that the Book of Mormon is first and foremost a spiritual witness of the divinity of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. I also testify that it is a literal historical record of real people and events that did actually occur.
I testify to the Prophetic calling of Joseph Smith Jr. as the leader of this dispensation. I give my solemn witness that he did indeed translate the ancient records of Lehi’s posterity to bring forth the Book of Mormon. I also believe his prophetic statements, claimed by him to have been received by revelation.
I testify that the church today is headed by a prophet of God, currently President Thomas S. Monson, who guides and directs the affairs of the church on the earth today, and who is solely authorized to receive divine revelation appertaining to the body of the church.
Truth stands on its own.
July 7th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
[...] FAIR gives two thumbs down for a DVD entitled “DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography.” Apparently a shorter live version has been making the rounds at LDS firesides for several months now. Permanent Link : Comments (0) [...]
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
[...] in June of this year, FAIR posted an initial review of Rodney Meldrum’s DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography. At the time, there were [...]