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	<title>Comments on: The Court has Spoken &#8212; Again</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/</link>
	<description>Defending Mormonism</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Lance Starr</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3141</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3141</guid>
		<description>Nick:

Sorry on two counts.  One, that I can't spell your name and two, that I gave the impression that I count you as a "dedicated defender of Sandra."  I re-read what I wrote and I note that that is the exact impression and I gave and I didn't mean to do that because I know full well you don't defend her.

I guess my point was that I would have liked to have seen a little more discussion on the issue, but maybe the judge's decision is tight enough that it limits that discussion.

At any rate, I apologize for the confusion.

Lance</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick:</p>
<p>Sorry on two counts.  One, that I can&#8217;t spell your name and two, that I gave the impression that I count you as a &#8220;dedicated defender of Sandra.&#8221;  I re-read what I wrote and I note that that is the exact impression and I gave and I didn&#8217;t mean to do that because I know full well you don&#8217;t defend her.</p>
<p>I guess my point was that I would have liked to have seen a little more discussion on the issue, but maybe the judge&#8217;s decision is tight enough that it limits that discussion.</p>
<p>At any rate, I apologize for the confusion.</p>
<p>Lance</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Literski</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3083</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Literski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3083</guid>
		<description>Hold on there, Lance.  I am certainly no "dedicated defender of Sandra." I've met the woman once, very briefly.  I find the religious faith espoused by the Tanners to be far less tenable than Mormonism, and I think there are far better things to devote one's life to than interfaith battling (that goes both directions, mind you).  I simply felt, and still feel, that the website in question was a juvenile stunt, better suited to middle school pranksters than adults who profess to emulate Jesus of Nazareth.  

You are correct that I predicted that the district court's decision would be overruled by the Tenth Circuit (though you can't spell my name).  I readily admit that my prediction was proven wrong.  Thankfully, I don't pretend to be a prophet. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hold on there, Lance.  I am certainly no &#8220;dedicated defender of Sandra.&#8221; I&#8217;ve met the woman once, very briefly.  I find the religious faith espoused by the Tanners to be far less tenable than Mormonism, and I think there are far better things to devote one&#8217;s life to than interfaith battling (that goes both directions, mind you).  I simply felt, and still feel, that the website in question was a juvenile stunt, better suited to middle school pranksters than adults who profess to emulate Jesus of Nazareth.  </p>
<p>You are correct that I predicted that the district court&#8217;s decision would be overruled by the Tenth Circuit (though you can&#8217;t spell my name).  I readily admit that my prediction was proven wrong.  Thankfully, I don&#8217;t pretend to be a prophet. <img src='http://www.fairblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: TrevorM</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3058</link>
		<dc:creator>TrevorM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3058</guid>
		<description>The court found for Allen on virtually every point and upheld a summary judgment.  I felt like it was "water-tight" and then some.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The court found for Allen on virtually every point and upheld a summary judgment.  I felt like it was &#8220;water-tight&#8221; and then some.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lance Starr</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3053</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3053</guid>
		<description>Somehow, I'm surprised that we haven't heard more from Sandra's camp.  I guess I'm also surprised that we haven't heard more from the media and also from the Dedicated Defenders of Sandra.  When the District Court ruled on this last year, Nick Liturski confidently stated that the ruling would be overturned.  I haven't seen any critique of the decision or its legal ramifications.  Certainly, no one has accused the judges of having an LDS bias.

I guess that means the decision is pretty much water-tight.

Lance</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow, I&#8217;m surprised that we haven&#8217;t heard more from Sandra&#8217;s camp.  I guess I&#8217;m also surprised that we haven&#8217;t heard more from the media and also from the Dedicated Defenders of Sandra.  When the District Court ruled on this last year, Nick Liturski confidently stated that the ruling would be overturned.  I haven&#8217;t seen any critique of the decision or its legal ramifications.  Certainly, no one has accused the judges of having an LDS bias.</p>
<p>I guess that means the decision is pretty much water-tight.</p>
<p>Lance</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Wood</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3040</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3040</guid>
		<description>I didn't know about a spoof site and a lawsuit.

Sounds like a little wildness in the corridor - thanks for the news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know about a spoof site and a lawsuit.</p>
<p>Sounds like a little wildness in the corridor - thanks for the news.</p>
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		<title>By: juliann</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3039</link>
		<dc:creator>juliann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 00:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3039</guid>
		<description>Even though it was a successful fundraiser for her, it was indeed a lot of money to fund a snit rather than further her version of Christian truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though it was a successful fundraiser for her, it was indeed a lot of money to fund a snit rather than further her version of Christian truth.</p>
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		<title>By: NoS</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3035</link>
		<dc:creator>NoS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3035</guid>
		<description>well, at least the Tanners wasted money on lawyers instead of being able to attack the church with it (If that's of some comfort).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, at least the Tanners wasted money on lawyers instead of being able to attack the church with it (If that&#8217;s of some comfort).</p>
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		<title>By: Allen Wyatt</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3033</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Wyatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3033</guid>
		<description>Hindsight is always 20/20. (Well, much closer to 20/20 than foresight ever seems to be.)

In hindsight I would not do it again. Not because I consider it wrong or somehow unethical; I don't. I wouldn't do it again because I would never want to put those I care about though the problems that the past three years have presented.

As to "stepping down" to anyone's level, I don't view it that way. I never claimed in my defense that I was doing a parody. I did, however, claim that I was exercising my freedom of speech to provide alternative viewpoints concerning what I consider to be lies and deceit on the part of the Tanners. It was the court who said that my site was a parody (and, in their words, a successful one) and therefore protected under the safe harbor provisions of the Lanham Act and not liable for prosecution.

That being said, I understand that some people may find parody a bit disturbing. (I find the parody and mockery published by the Salamander Society to be disturbing and sometimes offensive.) My whole point was that while the Tanners can question whether Mormonism is "shadow or reality," the same question can be raised about their claims.

It is a pity that the Tanners thought they had to attack in a heavy-handed manner in Federal Court. It came off feeling like they were trying to silence freedom of speech when they didn't like that freedom being exercised toward them. I've said all along that all they had to do was ask and the domains would have been given to them. But, they didn't ask and instead launched into a three-year broadside that they eventually lost.

-Allen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hindsight is always 20/20. (Well, much closer to 20/20 than foresight ever seems to be.)</p>
<p>In hindsight I would not do it again. Not because I consider it wrong or somehow unethical; I don&#8217;t. I wouldn&#8217;t do it again because I would never want to put those I care about though the problems that the past three years have presented.</p>
<p>As to &#8220;stepping down&#8221; to anyone&#8217;s level, I don&#8217;t view it that way. I never claimed in my defense that I was doing a parody. I did, however, claim that I was exercising my freedom of speech to provide alternative viewpoints concerning what I consider to be lies and deceit on the part of the Tanners. It was the court who said that my site was a parody (and, in their words, a successful one) and therefore protected under the safe harbor provisions of the Lanham Act and not liable for prosecution.</p>
<p>That being said, I understand that some people may find parody a bit disturbing. (I find the parody and mockery published by the Salamander Society to be disturbing and sometimes offensive.) My whole point was that while the Tanners can question whether Mormonism is &#8220;shadow or reality,&#8221; the same question can be raised about their claims.</p>
<p>It is a pity that the Tanners thought they had to attack in a heavy-handed manner in Federal Court. It came off feeling like they were trying to silence freedom of speech when they didn&#8217;t like that freedom being exercised toward them. I&#8217;ve said all along that all they had to do was ask and the domains would have been given to them. But, they didn&#8217;t ask and instead launched into a three-year broadside that they eventually lost.</p>
<p>-Allen</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Literski</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3032</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Literski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3032</guid>
		<description>Allen, I'm curious.  Regardless of the final legal determination, would you do the same thing again?  While I understand the legal distinctions suggested by the court, I found the original activity a little disturbing, as if you were stepping down to the level of some of the worst critics of the LDS church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allen, I&#8217;m curious.  Regardless of the final legal determination, would you do the same thing again?  While I understand the legal distinctions suggested by the court, I found the original activity a little disturbing, as if you were stepping down to the level of some of the worst critics of the LDS church.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Fields</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/05/29/the-court-has-spoken-again/#comment-3023</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Fields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/?p=90#comment-3023</guid>
		<description>The site no doubt caused a lot of legal and personal grief. But i recalled looking at it before it got taken down. It was fun to look at. But if taking down the site and transferring domains helped to end the ability of UTLM to take further legal action it had to be done. 

Personally i feel Jerald and Sandra Tanners Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? needs an in depth online Wiki type review. Even a review of their smaller Major Problems in Mormonism would be a great project. All lesser Anti-Mormons seem to borrow their basic case against Mormonism. The Tanners just say a lot more on the same topics. 

Spoof websites have value, but i think handling the Tanners technical arguments have more value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The site no doubt caused a lot of legal and personal grief. But i recalled looking at it before it got taken down. It was fun to look at. But if taking down the site and transferring domains helped to end the ability of UTLM to take further legal action it had to be done. </p>
<p>Personally i feel Jerald and Sandra Tanners Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? needs an in depth online Wiki type review. Even a review of their smaller Major Problems in Mormonism would be a great project. All lesser Anti-Mormons seem to borrow their basic case against Mormonism. The Tanners just say a lot more on the same topics. </p>
<p>Spoof websites have value, but i think handling the Tanners technical arguments have more value.</p>
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