Comments on: Struggling with Questions of History or Doctrine http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/ Defending Mormonism Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:03:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Kerry Shirts http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1889 Kerry Shirts Thu, 17 Apr 2008 04:39:44 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1889 Enjoyed the talk Scott! I also enjoyed your last comment here. It is historical, but its purpose is not to teach history as such. The far more weighty and important part of the Book of Mormon are its teachings helping us become closer to God and accepting of Christ. Anyone reading it can plainly see that solid emphasis, no matter how many horses are not found in Mesoamerica. Best, Kerry Enjoyed the talk Scott! I also enjoyed your last comment here. It is historical, but its purpose is not to teach history as such. The far more weighty and important part of the Book of Mormon are its teachings helping us become closer to God and accepting of Christ. Anyone reading it can plainly see that solid emphasis, no matter how many horses are not found in Mesoamerica.

Best,
Kerry

]]> By: Scott Gordon http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1538 Scott Gordon Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:57:12 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1538 I believe the Book of Mormon to be historical. However, it isn't written as a history text. There is a lot of context that has been left out by the writers, and that can sometimes be confusing. But, what we learn in Sunday School is typically the lessons that were learned from the lives and interaction of the people from the Book of Mormon and the Bible. If someone named Ammon worked for a king, or if a guy named Paul talked to people in Rome--who cares? But, if we can gain spiritual insights from the events, then they become important. I believe the Book of Mormon to be historical. However, it isn’t written as a history text. There is a lot of context that has been left out by the writers, and that can sometimes be confusing. But, what we learn in Sunday School is typically the lessons that were learned from the lives and interaction of the people from the Book of Mormon and the Bible. If someone named Ammon worked for a king, or if a guy named Paul talked to people in Rome–who cares? But, if we can gain spiritual insights from the events, then they become important.

]]> By: Mike http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1535 Mike Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:12:54 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1535 True, but how many of those "earthly institutions" would teach the everlasting principles of the gospel necessary for salvation? True, but how many of those “earthly institutions” would teach the everlasting principles of the gospel necessary for salvation?

]]> By: mconder http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1520 mconder Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:29:34 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1520 "Much like in the Book of Mormon, it isn’t the history that is important, it is the gospel principals that we learn from it." Am I missing something. If I think the Book of Mormon and the translation story is literal and 100% the way the Church tell the story, then I would argue it is very much about history. I can learn good principles from any number of other earthly institutions. “Much like in the Book of Mormon, it isn’t the history that is important, it is the gospel principals that we learn from it.”

Am I missing something. If I think the Book of Mormon and the translation story is literal and 100% the way the Church tell the story, then I would argue it is very much about history. I can learn good principles from any number of other earthly institutions.

]]> By: mconder http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1519 mconder Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:29:02 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1519 "Much like in the Book of Mormon, it isn’t the history that is important, it is the gospel principals that we learn from it." Am I missing something. If I think the Book of Mormon and the translation story is literal and 100% the way the Church tell the story, then I would argue it is very much about history. “Much like in the Book of Mormon, it isn’t the history that is important, it is the gospel principals that we learn from it.”

Am I missing something. If I think the Book of Mormon and the translation story is literal and 100% the way the Church tell the story, then I would argue it is very much about history.

]]> By: Mike http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1483 Mike Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:42:48 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1483 "Personal faith cannot be proven to others and no one should feel coerced into believing something based on the faith-promoting experiences of historical figures. Let’s just acknowledge this and let people believe what they may, based on their own, real-time spiritual experiences." I'm sorry AC, but you seem to be completely forgetting about D&C 46:14 which says, "To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful." It is a gift of the spirit to be able to believe on others' words and have that strengthen your testimony. You are right in that it cannot be proven to anyone else, but I think you are under-valuing the faith-promoting experiences of others. Isn't one of the main reasons we have testimony meetings once a month not only so that people may bear their testimonies, but also that those in the audience might be uplifted and strengthened by hearing them? Just my thoughts. “Personal faith cannot be proven to others and no one should feel coerced into believing something based on the faith-promoting experiences of historical figures. Let’s just acknowledge this and let people believe what they may, based on their own, real-time spiritual experiences.”

I’m sorry AC, but you seem to be completely forgetting about D&C 46:14 which says, “To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.”

It is a gift of the spirit to be able to believe on others’ words and have that strengthen your testimony. You are right in that it cannot be proven to anyone else, but I think you are under-valuing the faith-promoting experiences of others.

Isn’t one of the main reasons we have testimony meetings once a month not only so that people may bear their testimonies, but also that those in the audience might be uplifted and strengthened by hearing them? Just my thoughts.

]]> By: Jonathan Mahoney http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1316 Jonathan Mahoney Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:57:14 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1316 I enjoyed this post. Thanks for reminding everybody of what's important. :-) I enjoyed this post. Thanks for reminding everybody of what’s important. :-)

]]> By: AC http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1300 AC Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:15:36 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1300 I'm sorry Scott, I'm not convinced. Keep in mind what President Hinckley has also said about the Book of Mormon: "The evidence for its truth, for its validity in a world that is prone to demand evidence, lies not in archaeology or anthropology, though these may be helpful to some. It lies not in word research or historical analysis, though these may be confirmatory. The evidence for its truth and validity lies within the covers of the book itself. The test of its truth lies in reading it." (Sorry, I don't have the reference.) Supporting historical items that may be overlooked by critics, a sampling of which you provide, can be counterbalanced by "evidence" against a divine restoration. All we can do is encourage faith. Personal faith cannot be proven to others and no one should feel coerced into believing something based on the faith-promoting experiences of historical figures. Let's just acknowledge this and let people believe what they may, based on their own, real-time spiritual experiences. I’m sorry Scott, I’m not convinced. Keep in mind what President Hinckley has also said about the Book of Mormon:

“The evidence for its truth, for its validity in a world that is prone to demand evidence, lies not in archaeology or anthropology, though these may be helpful to some. It lies not in word research or historical analysis, though these may be confirmatory. The evidence for its truth and validity lies within the covers of the book itself. The test of its truth lies in reading it.” (Sorry, I don’t have the reference.)

Supporting historical items that may be overlooked by critics, a sampling of which you provide, can be counterbalanced by “evidence” against a divine restoration. All we can do is encourage faith. Personal faith cannot be proven to others and no one should feel coerced into believing something based on the faith-promoting experiences of historical figures. Let’s just acknowledge this and let people believe what they may, based on their own, real-time spiritual experiences.

]]> By: AdamF http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1283 AdamF Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:03:53 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1283 I messed up the link in my handle. This one should be correct. I messed up the link in my handle. This one should be correct.

]]> By: AdamF http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1282 AdamF Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:02:38 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1282 Some nice points made... "Does the history they read include..." This part is really good. We too often leave out what doesn't perfectly match with our hypothesis. It can often be said about both sides of the aisle. Some nice points made…

“Does the history they read include…” This part is really good. We too often leave out what doesn’t perfectly match with our hypothesis. It can often be said about both sides of the aisle.

]]> By: Scott Gordon http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1281 Scott Gordon Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:37:58 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1281 Thanks for letting us know about the links. They are fixed now. Thanks for letting us know about the links. They are fixed now.

]]> By: bnielson http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1278 bnielson Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:10:15 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1278 Your links to the Wall street and LDS Newsroom articles seem to be broken. Or at least I can't get them to work for me. Your links to the Wall street and LDS Newsroom articles seem to be broken. Or at least I can’t get them to work for me.

]]> By: TrevorM http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1266 TrevorM Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:31:42 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1266 That was fantastic. You are to be congratulated for those words. Thank you. That was fantastic. You are to be congratulated for those words.

Thank you.

]]> By: Bart Jensen http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1265 Bart Jensen Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:12:02 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1265 Thank-you for putting to text some answers to concerns I have been having. It is amazing that even after vivid answers to prayer, we can still find moments of doubt. Now I better understand. May the Lord continue to bless us through faithful saints like you. Thank-you. Thank-you for putting to text some answers to concerns I have been having. It is amazing that even after vivid answers to prayer, we can still find moments of doubt. Now I better understand. May the Lord continue to bless us through faithful saints like you. Thank-you.

]]> By: Jeff Lindsay http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1262 Jeff Lindsay Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:48:39 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1262 Excellent. Thanks! I've quoted a portion at Mormanity. Excellent. Thanks! I’ve quoted a portion at Mormanity.

]]> By: Joe http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1253 Joe Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:34:42 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1253 Thank you for posting this. Thank you for posting this.

]]> By: Kevin Hinckley http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/comment-page-1/#comment-1242 Kevin Hinckley Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:42:30 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/03/09/struggling-with-questions-of-history-or-doctrine/#comment-1242 wow. Well said. wow. Well said.

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