Comments on: The “Two Cumorah Theory” http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/ Defending Mormonism Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:01:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Hans http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-3744 Hans Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:26:02 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-3744 BTW, I think Sperry worte a great article about this published by FARMS a few years back. I haven't read it for a long time but it is interesting. http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?filename=MTMzNTQ0MTU3My00LTEucGRm&type=amJtcw== BTW, I think Sperry worte a great article about this published by FARMS a few years back. I haven’t read it for a long time but it is interesting.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?filename=MTMzNTQ0MTU3My00LTEucGRm&type=amJtcw==

]]> By: Hans http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-3743 Hans Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:21:20 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-3743 Thanks Rick, your reasoning definitely convinced me! Such arguments will win millions of converts to your point of view. Thanks Rick, your reasoning definitely convinced me! Such arguments will win millions of converts to your point of view.

]]> By: Rick Schufner http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-3741 Rick Schufner Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:10:46 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-3741 All Bull Sh!t.... All Bull Sh!t….

]]> By: Bryce Haymond http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-3648 Bryce Haymond Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:36:20 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-3648 Just for the record, I think I've changed my mind on this subject. The opinion of a GA is not necessarily of any more worth than the opinion of a scholar. We are left to be guided by the Spirit in these things that are not official revealed doctrines. As J.F. McConkie once said, "Truth is not an office or a position to which one is ordained." Just for the record, I think I’ve changed my mind on this subject. The opinion of a GA is not necessarily of any more worth than the opinion of a scholar. We are left to be guided by the Spirit in these things that are not official revealed doctrines. As J.F. McConkie once said, “Truth is not an office or a position to which one is ordained.”

]]> By: lpoulsen http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1653 lpoulsen Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:31:47 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1653 Gary None, other than the text of the Book of Mormon says they were the same place. Mormon 6: 4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents round about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites. 5 And *when athree hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah. 6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and "<strong>hid up in the hill Cumorah </strong>all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord", "save it were these <strong>few plates </strong>which I gave unto my son Moroni." 7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them. 8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers. 9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war. 10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life. 11 And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me. Larry P Gary

None, other than the text of the Book of Mormon says they were the same place.

Mormon 6:
4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents round about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.
5 And *when athree hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.
6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and

“hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord”,

“save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.”

7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.
8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.
9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.
10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.
11 And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

Larry P

]]> By: gary http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1649 gary Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:29:45 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1649 why does the hill cumorah(battleground) and the hill cumorah (library) have to be the same place? why does the hill cumorah(battleground) and the hill cumorah (library) have to be the same place?

]]> By: Smitty http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1568 Smitty Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:19:23 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1568 I would refer you "Two Cumorah" boys to President Marion G. Romney's October 1975 conference address entitiled "America's Destiny". Read it throughly and in particular the second to last paragraph which includes. "...I bear you my personal witness that I know that the things I have presented to you today are true-both those pertaining to past events and those pertaining to events yet to come." Sounds like a testimony of a member of the First Presidency to me!!! Also read Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3 p. 232-243. Let's see statements and testimonies of members of the 12 and the First Presidency vs. LDS Scholars. I agree that's a hard choice but as for me and my household I'm going with the GA's on this one. I would refer you “Two Cumorah” boys to President Marion G. Romney’s October 1975 conference address entitiled “America’s Destiny”. Read it throughly and in particular the second to last paragraph which includes. “…I bear you my personal witness that I know that the things I have presented to you today are true-both those pertaining to past events and those pertaining to events yet to come.” Sounds like a testimony of a member of the First Presidency to me!!!

Also read Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3 p. 232-243.

Let’s see statements and testimonies of members of the 12 and the First Presidency vs. LDS Scholars. I agree that’s a hard choice but as for me and my household I’m going with the GA’s on this one.

]]> By: George Jackson http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1127 George Jackson Wed, 05 Mar 2008 18:04:06 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1127 Thats an extremely poor bit of garbage, because he says, hey, look at what Ritchie says, and hey look, they dug up stuff for this highway and look what they found. <B>UNTIL BYU DOES A REAL ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIG AT CUMORAH AND STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR IT THEN YOU CAN SAY SOMETHING. UNTIL THEN, YOU CAN SAY NOTHING.</B> Thats an extremely poor bit of garbage, because he says, hey, look at what Ritchie says, and hey look, they dug up stuff for this highway and look what they found.

UNTIL BYU DOES A REAL ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIG AT CUMORAH AND STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR IT THEN YOU CAN SAY SOMETHING. UNTIL THEN, YOU CAN SAY NOTHING.

]]> By: Allen Wyatt http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1126 Allen Wyatt Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:47:11 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1126 George J. (and others), There has been some archaeological work done around Cumorah in New York, and it is reviewed very well in <a href="http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/display.php?table=jbms&id=347" rel="nofollow">this article from FARMS</a>. The article is not that long and is definitely worth reading for anyone interested in the topic. -Allen George J. (and others),

There has been some archaeological work done around Cumorah in New York, and it is reviewed very well in this article from FARMS.

The article is not that long and is definitely worth reading for anyone interested in the topic.

-Allen

]]> By: George Jackson http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1122 George Jackson Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:38:53 +0000 http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/12/the-two-cumorah-theory%e2%80%9d/#comment-1122 RE: "there are no archaeological evidences of a great battle, with many thousands being killed there–no weapons, campsites, or other evidences of anyone having been there during that period of time." Your archaeological expectations are all messed up for a place that has been plowed over however many times it has been plowed over. You have no idea how it was before they started plowing it. Only by digging archaeologically can any remnants of anything be found. RE: “there are no archaeological evidences of a great battle, with many thousands being killed there–no weapons, campsites, or other evidences of anyone having been there during that period of time.”

Your archaeological expectations are all messed up for a place that has been plowed over however many times it has been plowed over. You have no idea how it was before they started plowing it. Only by digging archaeologically can any remnants of anything be found.

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