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	<title>Comments on: Hell has frozen over&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/</link>
	<description>Defending Mormonism</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Joe Steve Swick III</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-1069</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Steve Swick III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>chad: &lt;i&gt;while there have been some major disagreements in Freemasonry over mormonism…other than in Utah I don’t think there has ever been a ban on mormons from membership&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, Chad, in times past, other Grand Jurisdictions surrounding Utah have had similar bans in place. In fact, one of the conditions of the support of the founding of the Grand Lodge of Utah by surrounding Grand Jurisdictions, was the requirement *by those jurisdictions* that active, professing Latter-day Saints be banned from membership. 

I'm not at home with my reference histories at hand, but I'm confident that this is so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>chad: <i>while there have been some major disagreements in Freemasonry over mormonism…other than in Utah I don’t think there has ever been a ban on mormons from membership</i></p>
<p>Actually, Chad, in times past, other Grand Jurisdictions surrounding Utah have had similar bans in place. In fact, one of the conditions of the support of the founding of the Grand Lodge of Utah by surrounding Grand Jurisdictions, was the requirement *by those jurisdictions* that active, professing Latter-day Saints be banned from membership. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not at home with my reference histories at hand, but I&#8217;m confident that this is so.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Steve Swick III</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-1068</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Steve Swick III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-1068</guid>
		<description>Greg: &lt;i&gt;The [LDS] church never forbad membership [in the Masonic Lodge].&lt;/i&gt;

I don't think that this accurately describes the situation, Greg. Until the mid-1980's the General Handbook of Instructions contained language prohibiting membership in "secret, oath-bound societies." While there is a historical quibble as to what groups this might refer to, there is quite a bit LESS quibble that it was effectively used to discriminate against LDS Freemasons by such things as witholding opportunites for Priesthood service and advancement, especially within the State of Utah (where for a variety of understandable reasons, tensions ran particularly high -- on both the Mormon and the Masonic sides).

More recently (as in the last 10 years or so), I've personally known individuals who were counseled against becoming Freemasons, because Masonry was deemed incompatible with LDS Church service. In fact, I've spoken with the individual (and can name him) at Church Headquarters who was quietly providing this kind of advice to members seeking guidance on this issue.

Now, I'd not wish to dampen the current warming relationship between Latter-day Saints and the Masonic fraternity. I am heartened to see Brother Cook as Grand Master of Masons in Utah. I trust this bodes well for the health of Masonry in that Grand Jurisdiction, and for the willingness of Utah Mormons in good standing to affiliate with our honorable fraternity.

I just would prefer that we don't whitewash the historical truth of the matter. That does a disservice to folks like the late Merv Hogan and Spencer W. Kimball, both of whom worked so very hard to overcome prejudices on BOTH sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg: <i>The [LDS] church never forbad membership [in the Masonic Lodge].</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that this accurately describes the situation, Greg. Until the mid-1980&#8217;s the General Handbook of Instructions contained language prohibiting membership in &#8220;secret, oath-bound societies.&#8221; While there is a historical quibble as to what groups this might refer to, there is quite a bit LESS quibble that it was effectively used to discriminate against LDS Freemasons by such things as witholding opportunites for Priesthood service and advancement, especially within the State of Utah (where for a variety of understandable reasons, tensions ran particularly high &#8212; on both the Mormon and the Masonic sides).</p>
<p>More recently (as in the last 10 years or so), I&#8217;ve personally known individuals who were counseled against becoming Freemasons, because Masonry was deemed incompatible with LDS Church service. In fact, I&#8217;ve spoken with the individual (and can name him) at Church Headquarters who was quietly providing this kind of advice to members seeking guidance on this issue.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;d not wish to dampen the current warming relationship between Latter-day Saints and the Masonic fraternity. I am heartened to see Brother Cook as Grand Master of Masons in Utah. I trust this bodes well for the health of Masonry in that Grand Jurisdiction, and for the willingness of Utah Mormons in good standing to affiliate with our honorable fraternity.</p>
<p>I just would prefer that we don&#8217;t whitewash the historical truth of the matter. That does a disservice to folks like the late Merv Hogan and Spencer W. Kimball, both of whom worked so very hard to overcome prejudices on BOTH sides.</p>
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		<title>By: Glen Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-631</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Let me also note that it is better to say that the first ''professed Latter-day Saint'' became Grand Master of Masons in Utah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me also note that it is better to say that the first &#8221;professed Latter-day Saint&#8221; became Grand Master of Masons in Utah.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Kearney</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-630</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Kearney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-630</guid>
		<description>Brother Cook;

Thank you for your post. I have always found the actions of Nevada curious indeed for while they attempted to impose a ban on LDS membership in Utah they seem never to have done so to themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother Cook;</p>
<p>Thank you for your post. I have always found the actions of Nevada curious indeed for while they attempted to impose a ban on LDS membership in Utah they seem never to have done so to themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Glen Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-629</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-629</guid>
		<description>Let me add to the comments:

At at 1100 on 2 February, the Annual Communication of the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Free &#38; Accepted Masons of Utah stood silent in respect of a good and great man.  The suggestion to do so was made by a Past Grand Master of another faith.  As the funeral cortege passed on South Temple, Masons who had informally gathered stood on the steps of the Salt Lake Masonic Temple, hands over their hearts.  They were greeted by those in the procession.

In regard to the position of other Grand Lodges as to LDS members, I note that the Grand Lodge of Nevada refused to grant a charter to Mt. Moriah Lodge in Utah unless that Lodge excluded Mormons from membership.  See http://www.nvmasons.org/history/torrence/torrntro.html (the last five paragraphs).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me add to the comments:</p>
<p>At at 1100 on 2 February, the Annual Communication of the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Free &amp; Accepted Masons of Utah stood silent in respect of a good and great man.  The suggestion to do so was made by a Past Grand Master of another faith.  As the funeral cortege passed on South Temple, Masons who had informally gathered stood on the steps of the Salt Lake Masonic Temple, hands over their hearts.  They were greeted by those in the procession.</p>
<p>In regard to the position of other Grand Lodges as to LDS members, I note that the Grand Lodge of Nevada refused to grant a charter to Mt. Moriah Lodge in Utah unless that Lodge excluded Mormons from membership.  See <a href="http://www.nvmasons.org/history/torrence/torrntro.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nvmasons.org/history/torrence/torrntro.html</a> (the last five paragraphs).</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Kearney</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-609</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Kearney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-609</guid>
		<description>You are quite correct outside of Utah LDS membership in Masonry is commonplace. And the church never forbad membership.

Greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are quite correct outside of Utah LDS membership in Masonry is commonplace. And the church never forbad membership.</p>
<p>Greg</p>
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		<title>By: chad</title>
		<link>http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-607</link>
		<dc:creator>chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fairblog.org/2008/02/09/hell-has-frozen-over/#comment-607</guid>
		<description>while there have been some major disagreements in Freemasonry over mormonism...other than in Utah I don't think there has ever been a ban on mormons from membership - in NY our Grand Lodge has never done so that I'm aware of</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>while there have been some major disagreements in Freemasonry over mormonism&#8230;other than in Utah I don&#8217;t think there has ever been a ban on mormons from membership - in NY our Grand Lodge has never done so that I&#8217;m aware of</p>
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